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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1992.12.09 CITY COUNCIL MINUTESP J i 1 Ricks College/City Council Meeting 12/09/92 7:00 A. M. Subject Closing Viking Drive Present: Mayor: Nile Boyle Councilman: Farrell Young Glen Pond Nyle Fullmer Jim Flamm Bruce Sutherland Brad Liljenquist City Clerk: Rose Bagley Attorney: J. D. Hancock Engineer: John Millar Mayor Boyle stated that this was not a regular meeting and no decisions could be made. It was a work meeting only. President Bennion - Over the last 1 1/2 years, we have had a number of issues of mutual concern between the city and the college that affect our mutual welfare. We have had a number of meetings with you to discuss different aspects of these concerns. He suggested that the council and college work together. The college's concern is the pressing need for more space. One of the most pressing needs for the college is space. He commented that many of the council had served on the campus in the church. The college had done a survey and found out that there is 35$ to 40$ of Sacrament Meetings on campus, if they had a good turn out could not accommodate everyone. That is one example of a lot of Instructional needs, Library needs, Physical Activity needs, collective group meeting needs and classroom needs. We began to look at how we could tackle the space. We formed committees to look at three or four specific building needs. We began that in the summer of 1991. We looked at a new Religion Building, a new Administration Building which was in part because our Library is too small and can only accommodate 10$ of our students at one time. We have a student body which is either all on campus or near campus. We also need an addition to our Snow building. An Activity Center is needed and we have looked at a new Activity Center. We decided to get a Master Plan. We invited two people to come to the college for two days 11/21/-11/23/91. These people have done a lot of planning on other campus. They tried to package together a plan. Four days later they met with the city council to share a progress report. A week later we presented these building needs to the board. Following that we had no action from the board at that time. They then said they would take it under advisement. For about 6 months we waited for action. Then we got involved with you for street planning. We wanted to share our master plan. Last March we were able to obtain the Deloy Ward farm. This is an important development for expansion to the south. The board of trustees indicated a willingness to donate land. A week ago the new commissioner on the board indicated they are going to take them to the board for action early January. About a month earlier we met with some of the council and indicated a desire to do some engineering work so we could look at something on 7th South. We wrote a letter to the city to indicate our willingness to go ahead and do that. The indication to that does not mean we can deed the land because the board has told us the land will be deeded on condition of not making Viking Drive a through street. We have concerns of the building needs and our ability to accommodate our students at the level our student body is now. Mayor Boyle - It is my opinion to go to hearing to close Viking Drive without 7th South being in would never go. If it was in, it would take some of the heat off. We can't close Viking Drive without going through all the hearings. If we get 7th South in we might have a chance going to a Public Hearing. Without 7th South, I think a Public Hearing would be disastrous. We are eight to ten years away from State Funding. The only alternative would be for the city to put in a two lane road. We may have to push it if you get approval for your buildings for the spring. f~ If the college got approval the quickest they would start is the spring of 1994. Dean Sorensen - It was his understanding that they would not close Viking Drive until 7th South was completed. He suggested that the concept could be presented, because we have to plan in advance. The mayor said that might be an alternative, if you have the plans approved and come to the hearing with the plans. The mayor gave the college a copy of the traffic count. (copy on file.) Jim Flamm stated he felt we don't even know that Viking Drive can be closed until we have had 7th South in and see what the traffic patterns do. If we presume to know where the traffic will go I think we will make some mistakes. The mayor told them as soon as they give the city a formal application for the hearing we will proceed with the hearing. John Millar stated that we would have a lot of opposition without 7th South. President Bennion - We are concerned with the safety issues. With the religion and administration building, our estimated pedestrian .crossing is about 20,000. We have talked about building an overpass or underpass. The experience that B.Y.U has had with that isn't very good. We have concerns with that. We recognize that 18 year olds are a little different than middle school children. We want a campus that is pedestrian friendly. The mayor stated there was a concern about taking out all the parking between the girls dorms. We have a complaint from the people of Cornell now and other streets about students parking on those streets. We require all the apartments to have parking within 1/2 block so we would be hard pressed to allow that. President Bennion- Part of the issue is the Board of Trustees are sharp people and the question will be asked "If you are so crowded with apace for your current level now, should we cut back on the size of Ricks College?" Our current applications for enrollment are down 1000 from where they were a year ago. For two years we have turned down 1200 to 1500 applicants. One of the alternatives by the board could be a cut back in our ceiling. There are rumors in the community that the ceiling is going up to 10,000. He had not heard anything in a meeting from the board of trustees that would indicate that. One of the issues is the size of Ricks College. Our hope is to maintain our existing ceiling. The mayor told them if you petition for the hearing, it would have to be scheduled in a reasonable time. President Bennion stated the Board of Trustees will probably ask how the city feels about this. He would like to know how the city feels about it. The mayor told him when we have the Public Hearing we have to go into it open minded. There is opposition as your plan is now. Brad Liljenquist- I think the council and the community is supportive of the building plans. It is an asset to the community to have the college here. The concern he keeps hearing is the closure of Viking Drive and the concern about what do we do with he 7000 cars that are traveling down Viking Drive. Will you put them down 2nd South, which creates another safety hazard. Once we get 7th South in, that will answer a lot of questions. I think the city is supportive of the plans but would like to take a little closer look at the approach. The closure of roads is a very serious matter and needs to be looked at close. President Bennion stated our master plan is not set in concrete. We would like some assurance on the safety issue before the ground is dug. Mayor stated it seems to come down to the College can't commit to giving 7th South but at the same time we can't commit before a Public 1' f # ~"- Hearing. We have to go through the requirements provided by State Statue. Bruce Sutherland referred to their original plan where Viking Drive winded behind the buildings and there was universal approval. Dean Sorensen said they had tried to get this to work, but could not get it through and had to abandon that plan. President Bennion- We sometimes suffer from forest and tree syndrome. One of the things that was refreshing was having some outsiders that were very knowledgeable come in and their concept was that if you build new buildings south of Viking Drive, you move the center of the campus south. If you talk to people in the L.S.A building, they feel they annexed because they are up so far. The new buildings would have the effect of moving the center of the campus farther south. Can you have a major through street right in the middle of your campus? What does it do to you? If you limit the street, you are defeating the purpose. Glen Pond - We all serve at the discretion of the people of the City of Rexburg. Would you be willing to put forth a program to market what you want to do7 I have reservations coming to a hearing right away to close Viking Drive without the college having some town meetings and getting some marketing out to the citizens of Rexburg as to what you want to do and why you want to do it. We need some support from some people that have been sold on the concept from the community and would like to see it happen. We might think it is a good concept but don't know where the traffic is going. If we had some type of a marketing program to see if the community could stand that and whether they could vision the concept that you vision. President Bennion - He felt that marketing would be a valid point. Glen Pond pointed out that when we did our Zoning Ordinance, we went to the schools and had meetings and made the people aware. We have to do what the citizens of Rexburg want. We don't always hear from the positive. John Millar - We have discussed this in Planning & Zoning. As you look at it on a college campus basis the plan is extremely good. On the other hand you are taking an area that would make it 5 blocks between arterials. You are taking a four lane road that connects to a four lane main road, which is a major arterial capacity road in town and the concept is to put in a narrow two lane road which connects onto a very restrictive two lane road and passes a middle school with 1200 population. On an engineering stand point there are a lot of negatives on the city side to close 4th 6outh. Bruce Sutherland said we only have enough money to put in a two lane road. We are 10 years down the road to get state funds. (discussion) President Bennion - When you drive'up through Idaho Falls to get to Rexburg the signs are frustrating. The signs don't say Rexburg and people go on out to Hamer and get lost. We have about 8000 student and may not be counted in population base. Jim Flamm- The traffic around the campus is campus related. I think the safety is uppermost in all of our minds. John Millar - I have listened to both sides of this through Planning & Zoning and engineering. Right now I don't think there is a viable solution present. You can't just close Viking Drive and say we will put 7th South in. Mayor- If we could put the South Arterial in I would have no problem. Jim Flamm- We need to explore ways to take some of the traffic off Viking Drive. There are four major car dealers down from Viking Drive. There are the motels, restaurant, and tire dealer that would generate traffic. If we could find a way to pull the commercial traffic ,, off. I think they go that way to get away from Main Street. If we could pull some of that commercial traffic to 1st South. There needs to be a light there. We need to look at alternatives. President Bennion- One question is the Economic Development in the state is aware of how many jobs a new building would create. We don't want to see the ceiling cut back. We are making a major contribution to this state. The mayor said he met with the Department of Commerce to see if we could get some Economic money to do that with. That is always based on job creation. It has to be low to moderate income jobs. They said they have trouble with creating jobs at educational institutions. The top grant they give is one-half million. J. D. Hancock- I attended a campus 25 years ago and they closed the road between 7:30 A. M. to 5:30 P. M. through campus. The only vehicles allowed on those roads were campus vehicles. Parking lots adjacent to campus might be a viable option. Jim Smith - What would be the ability of the city to commit to close 4th South as to when 7th South was put in? The mayor told him that was not legal and we could not do it. Farrell Young - You are not going to make a decision until January. There is nothing we can do now that is going to alter the decision of the buildings between now and then. If they do decide to develop the buildings, I feel there are ways we could develop that south arterial and really have a nice entrance into Rexburg. We could get that South arterial developed, even though it will cost a lot of money then these other things become much more viable. The mayor said the only legal way we can raise the money is a G. O. Bond. Dean Sorensen- I think Glen's comment about doing a better job of informing the citizens of Rexburg from the college standpoint is a good idea. Rexburg has to have a way to grow and so does the college. The college is over stuffed. If the community understood that, the answer is not to have Rexburg get smaller or to have the college go back a third less students. If the people understood that, they would be helpful in trying to get both things to help the college and also the growth of the city. Farrell Young - 4th South is deteriorating and needs to be improved. It seems that the money could be put in another area. President Bennion - i watched the diet center with interest and rumors. I couldn't believe all the growth and new houses after that. I was amazed as to how the community at large rebounded. John Millar - I think the community supports the college. I think the college needs to grow. You would have to come up with two million dollars to build an adequate replacement arterial or you don't close 4th South. Regardless of how good the plan is it still boils down to the city's responsibility to handle the city traffic either through or around the campus. Right now he did not see a solution. Until you have a solution to go to a Public Hearing, you will not have people support you. The mayor told them the sewer plant is on a Revenue Bond and this would have to be a G.O. Bond put on the taxes and require a 2/3 bond majority. Jim Flamm- If we take all the funds we have and pull away from the other street obligations for a two lane street on 7th South what would happen? Bruce said we would not have any money for repair of streets. Jim said if there was a way to limit traffic to a two lane down 4th South as we do studies and as other roads develop there could be a good chance that even that could be eliminated. John Millar - We have to handle South East - West traffic and have to have an alternative. had an opportunity to sell it for $50,000 for a truck stop vs $5,000 for farming ground, would the city pay you the $45,000? What if right next to this property I own a $250,000 home and you come in and put in a truck stop and now my home is worth $150,000? Mr Anderson told him he could sue the people. John said everyone can't sue everyone. We all have to live together and develope a community that will benefit all of us. There are no provisions or no money from the county or city for this. This is an Impact Zone only. It is not zoning for the whole county. It is not the city's interest to zone the county. It is up to the County. Restrictive Covenants on new ground can be done with enforcement. The problem is who enforces them. Dave Rasmussen - With regard to restrict covenants, the addition where I live has restrictive covenants that says you can't have pigs, you have to have a garage on your house and a number of other restrictive covenants. Nobody complies. Who enforces it? The rest of the people in the addition should band together and enforce the covenants. No one does it because they don't want to affect or hurt someone. John Millar stated that living together we give up rights and won't get the maximum out of our property and because we have to live together. This is a nice town and the Planning & Zoning is the reason. Louis N Clements - 7 East 200 North - Asked if the recent Idaho Falls case of the Skaar Feed lot would have an effect on Rexburg and the community. Richard - We have a concern on the Agriculture uses. The Skaar Feedlot in Bonniville County was in a non zoned area as far as he knew. Whether we like it or not the growth of the community will place restrictions on everyone. Mr Clements - I understood it was a zoning issue and that Bonneville /County was zoned. (Several people said it was zoned. Richard said he would stand to be corrected but the law suit was based as a nuisance.) Mr Clements stated that Skaar was no longer able to feed as he was. He was ordered to cut his lot in half. The people moved in and farmer lost out. A question, name not given -he had a copy of the local planning act. He questioned if the membership of the Planning Board met the requirements of the number of county members on the board. Reading Idaho Code 65-04 paragraph A. Richard told them it was referring to the County Planning not the Impact Zone. There is a section specifically for the Impact Zone. Marlin Birch - 269 East 3rd South - I want to buy an acre of ground and put a trailer on it and eventually build a house on it, will this be allowed? John Millar - We have not formalized exactly how to handle a situation like that. We have discussed that and the feeling of the group right now is in your situation putting a trailer on the property and in three or four years building a house, that would be allowed. Those rules have not been finalized. We will have another public hearing when we get down to the very specifics on how to take care of that. Mr Birch felt that before people buy a piece of property they need to know what they can do with it. He questioned the county planning & zoning board. John Magleby- He lives in the city and owns a parcel of property across from the golf course. We are hearing from the county commissioners that they are concerned about orderly growth in the Impact Zone He asked about zoning in the entire county. He discussed that Fremont County does have easement rights to protect farming. I think that would do a lot to stop a Skaar problem. It will give people the idea and what we need to have. The county needs to adopt a zoning plan. Dell Barney stated that in the paper they had asked for people to contact the county if they are interested in serving on the county Planning & Zoning to contact us and we can set up a commission to study rl~ ~, zoning and planning in the county. Part of the study is to see if people are willing to go with it. We don't want to start something if people are completely opposed to it. If we have county zoning, it has got to be from Madison County and it has to come from the people in Madison County and that is why we asked for interested people to show the positive side instead of just the negative side to determine if we even want to proceed with it. If you would like to serve on that board, we invite you to do so. Koreen Morgan - 1424 South 2000 West - I have some concerns about this. Part of it is, I have been hearing from people in other areas and from my work place who have had zoning in place and have been fined. I heard from a man the other day and he said if you don't have zoning in place, don't do it. I went to the county and got the oath of office out for the county commissioners and read it. I don't know how you can live up to your oath of office and yet agree that the state has a mandate that you have to follow when it is a violation of property rights. The state constitution and federal constitution say that things have to be done by consent when it concerns someone's property. I didn't know about this meeting until my dad read it in the paper. I know a lot of you have good intentions about zoning. I know we need to plan for growth because we are growing, and have grown in the last ten years. I wonder why we have to have mandated provisions and I question the authority that they are using from the state saying we have to have zoning. The state cannot mandate anything that deprives you of property rights. I don't have a problem with zoning for people who want it. My husband and I moved to the county because we did not want the restrictions that the city had. We moved there with the idea that in a few years we could get a few horses. I don't want to go to a committee and get a building permit or permission to build something on my property. What I moved out there to do is to be a good neighbor. No one has a right to issue me a license, because I already have that right. I work a lot with federal agencies and I see how they work. I know that there are matching funds available for building. But with these come ties that we don't need. If we don't believe it just look at EPA and see what a mess of things they make. There are horror stories about them all over the country where people have been taxed so much they can't afford to run their own land. I would hope the community takes a look at this. I know that no one would intentionally break their oath of office. I know that you can't buckle to everything that the state mandates and still work for the citizens of this county. I ask you to take another look at it. J. D. Hancock arrived at 8:15 P. M. Frank Jenkins - 256 West 4th South - The Impact zone is different than county zoning - no way. The city is part of the county. The county is not part of the city. I own property in the city and county. I feel like my taxes went up 30 - 40~. The cause of raising the taxes is the city sewer line and the new school. How much more will taxes go up. Part of the reason is the city does not annex property that is getting services such as High Country Potatoes, Sugar City and Rexburg Heights. We all pay taxes for this service they are getting. Now the zoning & planning in the county has to go through this board that the city has appointed. If the city wants control, why don't they annex the whole thing. I feel like you are taking away Freedom of Choice. This county is 99 per cent Mormons and you have one group of Mormons telling another group of Mormons telling another group of Mormons what they can do. I think it is cut and dried. Why on the county roads the power poles are on the county property. Talk about the house being away from the roads, what about the power poles. I am not for it as a county or city tax payer. Richard Smith - The property taxes will not be affected or go up. Property taxes will not be affected because of the Impact Zone. Both sides of the road are in the Impact Zone. Permits that are in place will still be there. Mayor Boyle - When High Country Potato and Rexburg Heights hook on to the sewer, they pay 1 1/2 times or they pay 150 to make it fair. It is true they extend those services, but they are penalized. ~~~, Frank Jenkins - That isn't correct, we pay for the whole thing. A fellow from Rexburg Heights told him that was not correct, they paid for the sewer to be put in and pay for the service. Frank argued with him. Richard Smith asked them to not argue in the audience. De Loy Ward - 1432 South 1000 West - I used to have cattle and sold them, I have sold off part of my ground. I want to ask about abandonment of three years. I have a piece of ground I bought in Utah -and the town of Perry came in with an Impact Zone. The fifty acre piece of farming ground - Brigham Young sent some colonizer up there and they had some hay and grain - They used the city water. We bought the piece of property and now they have hooked up a double wide trailer. The city came back and said now it has changed ownership. The previous ownership abandon it for three years because of bankruptcy. The city came back and said we want you to give us an easement so we can annex it in and want you to put in a 6" water line and afire hydrant. We also want you to pay for a turnout. It came to the point we would have to move the trailer and level the ground. I don't think I should have had to ask the city what my rights were - didn't I already have those rights as a property owner. What will stop them from changing existing rights. We are now in the process of seeing if we can't drill a well and break away from the city. We are fighting the Impact Zone. I also have some ground in Bingham County. The neighbor has two houses and wants to put another trailer house in for his hired man. All we have to do in Bingham County is all the people around there has to sign and not go through the zoning. Why can't we do things in the neighborhood. I also have ground in Jefferson County. We bought 37 acres. We sold five acres and wanted to give a deed on one acre with a contract on the other four acres, so they could get a loan to build a home. There were 700 feet left. We have 32 acres left and the county comes back with a zoning ordinance and changed the frontage requirement. So the ground is in weeds. Why do we have to fight the power lines? When I go up Poleline road, I can't even get a harvester up that road because of the power lines and the same in Fremont County. If we do have Zoning in the county after the Impact Zone, I am setting clear up in the sticks, up in the high country, I work with the Forest Service, I work with the B. L. M., I work with the State and I work with my neighbors. Why can't we let people go out and control their own communities. To clarify his question, why can't we do things like Bonneville County and just get the consent of our neighbors? Richard Smith - Stated it sounds like a conditional use permit getting the neighbors permission. David Rasmussen - What we are trying to do is we are taking the City of Rexburg and trying to establish orderly growth around the community. If you had sat in any of these meetings, you would find out that our goal as county commissioners and this committee is to try to protect residents of the county. If the city is going to ask for an Impact Zone, it is going to encompass the property in the surrounding areas. In an attempt to accommodate the needs of orderly growth of the city we are trying to work out a solution that will accommodate them as well as protect the rights of you people involved in that Impact Zone. There has to be somekind of workable solution and this is what we are searching for and trying to get. Nothing is definite. Nothing is written in stone. This is the purpose of the Impact Hearing is to get the input prom the people so that a solution that will meet the growth and expansion of the city and protect the rights of the people as best as possible is what we would like to do. Deloy Ward stated he keeps hearing what the City wants instead of the County. Don't let the city shove it down our throats. Steve Morgan- 1424 South 2000 West - I would like to volunteer to serve on the Planning Board for the County. He asked if they would put it in writing that it won't affect taxes. ~r Richard Smith - stated it wouldn't do him any good to put it in writing he is just on the Planning & Zoning. Nothing changes, you are still in the county and will pay fees and building fees to the county. Rod Anderson - 2635 West 3800 South - I know that your intentions are good in your opinion. The opening statement tonight sounded like everything was put in concrete all they needed to do is put the nails in the coffin. Quoting 14th Amendment Section 1. I am not in the Impact Zone but I am opposed to it because I know that it is a stepping atone to eventually zone the whole county. I know there are people here that belong to such organizations as Madison Economic Development and ECIPDA that have made statements that they plan to zone the county. I resent any self appointed group that are not elected by the people in Madison County to tell us what to do. (reading again from 14th Amendment) (refer to the tape) (see copy attached) When I grew up in the same neighborhood which is similar to what it was, neighbors helped each other and discussed their problems. At times I have had problems with my neighbors and we have discussed it and solved the problems together. Under Planing and Zoning, such neighbor cooperation will fail because they will have the Planning & Zoning tell us what to do. We have ways to solve problems in Madison County and also have respected each other's rights. (reading see attached) 17th Street is a prime example of zoning, look at Sam's Club and Walmart across the street, that should have all been Residential. I don't know how those people get out of their driveways because the traffic is so terrible. Richard Smith - Stated as written in the Constitution of the United States as you interpret that, we might have a disagreement. I can find Supreme Court Cases that defines Planning & Zoning Constitution. Rod Anderson gave his views of the Constitution and 14th Amendment. Lee Ward - 1434 South 2000 West - I want to go on record that I am opposed to this. I have the same feelings as Mr Anderson. Taking away the constitutional rights. I served in Viet Nam and served on the military advisory group. These people were under a dictatorship-and had their rights taken away. Communism followed and their situation was dictating people`s rights. I feel it is wrong to go against the constitution and take away the rights of individuals. If you want to do something of this nature, you should have a vote from the people in the Impact Area to see what they want rather than dictate it to them. Lyle Smith - Millhollow Road - I want to know how far back on the road I need to be if I want to put houses on it? John Millar told him 90 feet from the center of the road. (discussion on the houses that are there now) Lyle asked about a frontage road if he put house on the property with reverse frontage. John told him he would have to have a frontage road to put house on it. On Shoshone he would not have to have a frontage road. A frontage road would have to be put on Millhollow to protect the arterial road. Lyle said if he had to put a frontage road in he would loose a lot of property. Richard Smith - You know the problem with Millhollow Road. Lyle said he knew the problem, but he did not have the capability. Richard told him in his situation and in Lyles, you would not be able to allow houses along Millhollow but can go to the other street off the arterial. The people have used Millhollow Road as a Sub division road and that is what we are trying to stop. Lyle felt good about being able to go to the other street as a frontage. John Magleby - Is the city and county doing something on the farm to market roads like Millhollow? If the farm traffic was to stop coming down Millhollow would that change so houses could be built on Millhollow? Richard- anytime the city or county determine that is no longer an arterial, then it will change. He suggested that even if the farm to market road changed, that would probably be an arterial to move traffic to and from work. Steve Hart- 285 Millhollow- I have watched potato trucks go up and down the road and it doesn't bother me because they try to obey the speed limit. He asked Richard since Millhollow is half arterial and half in the city and dead ends at the high school, if an alternate road was ~ ~ .-, ~,~' , ~:. looked at that was safer and would serve the farmer as well would they consider changing that arterial road to another one? Richard - I don't know if it would ever be taken off from being called an arterial. As far as being a farm to market road with produce trucks, I think you are aware that it has been discussed between the city and the county two or three years ago to establish an alternative road. When that happens, I would be in favor of having truck traffic on that farm to market road. I am probably impacted as much or more than anyone. I can forsee it will be an arterial for through traffic. Roger Muir- During the past week there were two or three of us that raise cattle that had a meeting with the county commissioners, with Richard, and Jerry. We are in agreement to the grace period of the grandfather clause. We are still not in agreement with the three year period. We would like it to be five years. Richard brought up the idea that we could put a footnote along with it for myself and some others that are in the cattle business not someone that just has one or two. The footnote as to how we can stay in business if we don't have cattle for a few years because of a good reason. We have talked to Richard and Jerry about that and we are in agreement. We would like them to put that to the rest of the committee. I would like to see some information on that. Also Richard brought up about Fremont County about the easement with other ranchers in the agricultural area as to smell, dust and noise. As I looked at this draft, there is not anything to give any advantage and protection to us. Before it is done I would like to see something in it to protect and give me an advantage. As I understand it the draft is up for approval for this draft. John Millar - It is up for input. Richard told him before an ordinance proposing zones, there will be another public hearing. Before it is drafted to give neighbors easements, there will be another public hearing. Mr Muir - I really feel there is a need for some organized growth, so we don't have anymore problems like Skaar Feedlot and Millhollow Road. Lets protect the things that are existing. I would like to see you back up and make some additions to this addressing some of those things before the final draft. Richard Smith - We met the time limit. Thanks everyone for coming. If anyone wants to submit testimony, please do so and take it to the city or county building. Thank you. Ken Anderson asked if the committee planned to have the adoption through before the end of the year. Richard told them there would be another public hearing. May , Nile L. Boyle 0 ~' Ci y Clerk~os~ agley