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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1992.07.21 CITY COUNCIL MINUTES/a, State of Idaho) County of Madison( ss City of Rexburg) Present were: Mayor: Councilman: Excused: Special Meeting Crest Haven Subdivision July 21, 1992 7:00 P. M. Nile Boyle Jim Flamm Farrell Young Glen Pond Brad Liljenquist Nyle Fullmer Bruce Sutherland City Clerk: Rose Bagley Attorney: J. D. Hancock The mayor stated that this is an information meeting only. Pledge to the flag. John Millar told the group he had looked at two different options and showed a plan and explained it. One was to pick up the flow on the first two streets, Westwood and Hillview and that estimate was about $29,000. To pick up three streets - Westwood, Hillview and Vista - it would be $40,000. It breaks down with 79 lots to $370 additional per lot for two streets and $506 additional per lot which would pick up all the streets drainage. David Pincock- Westwood Drive - We had a community meeting Sunday afternoon and discussed the proposal. They wanted to see the design first. They had taken a vote and it was felt that they wanted all of it put in. Everyone in the subdivision was contacted. They were not able to contact Crofts. 27 homeowners out of 79 came to the meeting and were in favor. The person holding the majority of the lots was not there. The people felt they wanted it done all at once. They also wanted to request that the city participate as they did before at 50~ participation. There were some safety concerns on how the grading would be put in. John Millar said it would be similar to the one by Ladles. Lonnie West thought the drain should be up higher than the engineer had drawn on the plan. Mr Pincock said Grooms said they would not like it in front of their house. The people assumed that if this plan is accepted that the holes in the street would be repaired until the entire street is repaired. The mayor stated that the option we have is if every homeowner would sign a waiver we could hook onto this LID and go with it. The chance of getting everyone that owns a lot up there to sign is a little remote. If we don't get 100 of the owners to sign a waiver, we would have to start a new LID to put this drain in. Dave said as he understands it if we go ahead and do this part of the LID this year and wait for the paving next year then some of the money for paving could be used to take care of this. J. D. Hancock told them we could not do that, he would check it out. Blair Manwaring understood that the city could do the drain and then reimburse the fund. The mayor said we could not do the work and then go to the people and say we are going to have an LID. Glen Pond said what if the work was done and then the LID did not go and you would not have the funds to pay it back. Nyle Fullmer said it would cost more that way. The mayor said he did not think we could do it legally. /3 Dave Pincock said from what he hears we can't put the drain in. The mayor said only if 100$ sign a waiver. Brad told them all property owners could come up with the money up front. The mayor said the LID that we have now has to be closed out, because we have to pay the contractor. The only way we can get the money this year is to piggyback onto the LID and have everyone sign a waiver of hearing. (discussion) Dave Pincock asked if the city would participate. The city did assume some responsibility when they annexed the subdivision into the city. The mayor stated that it is the consensus to draw up waivers and see how many will sign them. Nyle Fullmer said we need to look at the budget and see if the city can participate. The mayor told them we will get the waivers out to the property owners. 0~ ' Mayor, ile L. Boy ;~ ..~-~ ~~ City Clerk, Rose gle iJ ~7 Public Hearing Closing of Harvard July 21, 1992 7:30 P. M. ~~ [J State of Idahoj County of Madison( ss City of Rexburg) Present were the following: Mayor: Councilman: Excused: Nile Boyle Jim Flamm Glen Pond Nyle Fullmer Brad Liljenquist Farrell Young Bruce Sutherland City Clerk: Attorney: Rose Bagley J. D. Hancock Members of the Planning & Zoning: Jim Long, Mary Ann Mounts, Marsha Bjornn, Davawn Beattie, Jeff Walters, Scott Mortensen. A Public Hearing to determine whether or not the following described city street which is South Harvard Avenue next to the Rexburg armory building in the Sorensen Addition to the City of Rexburg be vacated. "All of Harvard Avenue lying West of Block 6 of the Sorensen Addition, Madison County, Idaho, as per the recorded plat thereof. and All of Harvard Avenue lying West of Lot 1, Block 1 of the Sherwood Hills Subdivision, Madison County, Idaho, as per the recorded plat thereof." Glen Pond told the group that this is a Public Hearing All we are doing is getting information. The mayor asked if there were any conflicts of interest. John Millar stated that he was acting for Mr Henderson not as a Planning & Zoning member and did have a conflict. John Millar with Forsgren Associates - Showing plan. The purpose is not to decide the merits of the development but of the closer of Harvard Ave. The city must go through certain procedures to abandon if abandonment goes to the contiguous property owners. The apartment that is proposed is for student housing. The building will be 53 feet wide and 285 feet long. It would be constructed just south of the armory building and north of the old KRXK Radio building. When Sherwood Hills Subdivision plat was developed a few years ago, a portion of the plat was left out of the plating process and intended for High Density Housing. (explaining the plan) The plan was intended that Harvard would be a street and a right-a-way would be obtained from the property owners. Bill Henderson- Box 376- Rexburg, Idaho- Basically we had a Planning & Zoning meeting in December. At that time we filled up the city hall with people against that project. The one concern which had some merit to it was increased traffic flow on Harvard. Harvard probably can't stand anymore traffic. This proposal took into account their concerns. We went back to the drawing board and this is our remedy. In abandoning the street we are not making the parking lot bigger. The landscaped area is bigger than the original proposal. It is more than is required by the new zoning ordinance. It varies between 20 feet and 40 feet, and on the north side it is 17 feet. This should be the answer to everyone's concern. We widened the buffer zone and want to close the street. We are still able to utilize the land as it was intended when it was kept out of the subdivision when it was platted. John said any in and out is on 2nd East. Bill said the width of the parking lot is just what the ordinance requires. Brad Liljenquist- if the city doesn't give up the street will you still proceed with the project. Bill said it is inevitable, apartments will be built in R3 zone. He told Brad if they don't abandon the street he ~~~ would see what happens in court. Basically this is the answer to everyone's concerns that were voiced in December. Jim Long said what he is hearing is that he is interpreting the Planning & Zoning Ordinance to say that you can put a parking lot on the east side of the street even though it is not contiguous with the property you are developing. Bill told him it was, if it is R3 parking. Douglas Young 378 Yale- Asked about the zoning. John Millar told him the Zoning Ordinance does not preclude the parking in R1. Jim Long - It was my understanding, it was not possible to cross a public right-a-way with his parking. John told him the ordinance says a parking lot cannot be separated by a public right-a-way. Jim said he interprets the ordinance in a different way. Clyde Luke - 334 Harvard. His property would be directly affected one way or another, if the street is not closed, or if the housing complex is built. Assuming whether the parking lot is built or is not built the area to the west of Harvard Ave in the 400 block is going to have student apartments constructed on it, whether it is next week or two or three years from now. The unit that is proposed parks about 40 automobiles. There is a piece of ground south of that, which last I checked was known as the Bird property and eventually it will be built on as well. There will probably be 35 or 40 care involved with that. If Harvard is not closed, the majority of that traffic will not go to the West and on to 2nd East. It will go to the north which is Harvard Ave, where he and about 11 other families, who have signed a petition in support of the closer of this street, live and exist with the traffic. We already have a traffic problem. We have a traffic problem due to the apartments that have already been built on the south of our street over 20 years ago. Harvard was never designed and never intended to be a feeder street. It was designed to service the residents in that LDR1 area. If they come down 4th South hit Harvard and then north to 3rd South they avoid one extra atop sign. We are already entertaining much more traffic than our street was designed for. If you were to figure approximately 20 vehicles per residential block, that is the same as adding on 9 blocks of additional residences down Harvard Ave. We have in the middle of our block ten small children within two households. In the middle of the block the traffic reaches nearly 40 miles per hour before they put on their brakes to get ready to elide into the stop sign. In the winter often they don't make it and end up on a lawn. The property owners on that street have discussed and decided to give our support behind the closure of Harvard. Whether the parking lot is built, there is going to be student parking on the Weat of that street and Harvard Ave will inherit a lot of the traffic from those apartments. In the winter the snow plows are very effective getting the snow pushed back to a point, but when there gets more snow we only have one lane. With this excessive traffic, you aren't talking about the width of 2nd East or 3rd East, we are talking about Harvard Ave which is much narrower. We urge the city council to approve the request that Harvard Ave be allowed to be closed. A number of people are here tonight to urge the closer of the street. Jim Flamm asked him if the request to close the street would be there whether Mr Henderson builds the apartment or not. Mr Luke told him yea, whether Mr Henderson builds or Mr Smith builds we have a traffic problem. George Pingree- Salt Lake City, Utah- I am the trustee for a group that owns Sherwood Hills. I am here just to listen and find out what people are thinking. I am not in favor of one thing or another. One thought he had, if Harvard Ave is closed rather than to close it at the end of the green area, the dog Ieg just as well be closed off because there would be no value of the street. It needs to be closed at South 3rd East. Mayor Boyle read a letter from Terrance Bagley, 423 Yale. He is opposed to closing Harvard Ave and re-zoning lot 1, block 1, of Sherwood Hills Subdivision. (on file) Jackolyn Shattock- We own the Shattock apartments. We own lot 6 and are not opposed to closing Harvard, we are opposed to all the traffic. We need access to our property. John Millar said it would stay as it currently is next to their apartments. We have people in the apartments who have children so we don't want all that traffic. Mr Luke stated if it was abandoned, could it revert to her in the same manner. The mayor said if it were vacated it would go to the property owner. Half would go to you and half to the Reserve Center. You would have to maintain the easement, but you could gravel or pave it. Brad Liljenquist told her if you wanted to request additional abandon it would be a separate issue. (discussion) To abandon the dog leq it will have to be a separate issue. Brent Barker- 231 East 3rd South- They live on the corner of Harvard. It is down hill to 3rd South. In the spring we have had cars on our lawn three different times. The power poles have been hit and trees have been hit. It is down grade and an unsafe situation, and these are students driving and they drive at a horrendous speed. There are small children on that block. Be conscious of the safety and the enormous amount of cars going down Harvard. If they come out on 2nd they could stop. Cliff Jaussi- All of the things that have been presented, you can find on any block in town the same thing. You should come down 2nd East, in the winter you can see cars on the lawns or around a utility pole. It won't change, it will get worse because we are getting more cars. He questioned the one entrance into the complex and wondered if you could get a fire truck in and out. We need to have another way out of the complex. He is opposed to closing any streets in Rexburg. If you want to shut them down and still own them that is okay, but don't give them away. They laid out a good plat when they first set it up and in the last few years all they have done is close streets. It will affect the whole city. You have kids on every street playing. I am not in favor of putting any big housing units in there. We need to build in other areas, so we can spread the cars out. He was oppose to closing any more roads in our city. Dawn Anderson- 324 South 3rd East-(1) She asked to see the blue print as to where the exit is? John showed her. (2) Where do you project the traffic will flow? John told her down hill. (3) Is there any chance of there being another exit? John said it would have to be presented to Planning & Zoning. The issue tonight is whether or not to close the street. She said she lives on 3rd East and there are about 20 children. The street is also narrow, with parking and traffic problems. Their main concern is the traffic. She asked what the plans are for the buffer area? John said it would be landscaped and have trees. (reading from ordinance) She said she would also like to speak in behalf of Jim and Joan Green. They would have a large parking lot in their front door. The Beehive Credit Union is interested in the property south of the armory for building an new credit union. She stated that a nice quiet daytime business like that would be much preferred to a large student housing complex. She was told it was zoned for student housing, not commercial. She realized it was zoned for student housing but they were concerned about the parking lot and the traffic and noise problem. She stated in November this lot was referred to as an unproductive patch of weeds and they were asked if they wanted an unproductive patch of weeds in their neighborhood or put to a productive use like this. Most of us said we would prefer the unproductive patch of weeds. (read a statement- attached) Layne Dearden- 352 South 3rd East - Does Planning & Zoning answer to the City Council or does the City Council have the final say? The mayor said if it has to be re-zoned it will have to come to City Council. The Planning & Zoning just give a recommendation. In December a lot of 17 people expressed opinions. Most of them did not want the development and parking lot there. He only heard them say they would study it. He then came to a city council meeting and it sounded like the decision had already been made, that the parking lot would be acceptable. Tonight I find that Mr Millar is not just working for the city on this but is also working for the developer. Six weeks ago at that meeting were you an employee of Mr Henderson and were you an employee of Mr Henderson at Christmas time? The mayor told Mr Dearden that John Millar had always declared his conflict of interest. Chris Mattock - 407 South 3rd East - I would have a lovely view from out my window if a parking lot was allowed to be put on this lot. He realized that the issue was the closure of Harvard, but the next issue would be to put a parking lot in. I am oppose to the closure of the street because I don't think we need a parking lot in that area of town. I am trying to sell my house and I think the city council has a responsibility to its residents. It is the council's responsibility to try to make sure the property values improve. You certainly would not have been elected to see that property values go down. We have been told in the neighborhood that if this project is approved and there is a parking lot built, we can expect to have a decrease in our property values of 10 to 20 percent. If I can't get what I have in my house and have to take a loss of $10,000 or $20,000, am I going to come to you as city council for redress on that. Mr Henderson won't be willing to give me that kind of money. I am not here to take a loss on my property, but that is what is going to happen if this street is closed and the parking lot built, because people are not going to buy it. I have my life savings tied up in my house and I don't expect to leave them in Rexburg, when I leave. President Bennion told Mr Green on July 7 that Ricks College did not need any more student housing. He referred to a letter from Mr Green and a petition. Farrell Young said there are several signatures on that petition that are also on a petition to close Harvard and we need to know how some of those people feel. He said he was to a meeting when the street name was changed to Technology Way and the people on that street were not notified. He hoped they would not handle this situation the same way. Jim Flamm - is the opposition to closing the street because of the traffic or is the opposition to the building and parking lot or is it a tool to keep the building and parking lot from being built. Mr Mattock said it is one of the same. The mayor stated that we would enter two different petitions into the record. Janet Webster - 430 Yale Ave- We bought a lot and built a home. At the same time we bought it, you were having meetings to re-zone the city and several of us came down and she came down another time and checked to see that the whole Sherwood Hills estate was zoned residential 1. Before Harvard Ave had changed their minds, they had a lawyer, Mr Grover from Rigby and read a statement, and Mr Hancock had called Renae Magee, and both of them said under the zoning rule in our town and in the new zoning laws that is not zoned for a parking lot. We are here to talk about Harvard, but I think that is putting the cart before the horse. If we close Harvard, there is nothing else to do with it but put up an apartment house. We were assured at the meeting that it was Residential 1 and we did not have to worry about it. Am I going to have to come to every Planning & Zoning meeting to protect my right on my lot. I like Mr Henderson but I don't want him to build the parking lot in my housing development. No one will buy those lots next to the parking lot or it won't be the type of a neighborhood that we want. Mary Ann Mounts told her that Planning & Zoning did not change anything. We did not mislead you. There is a gray area in our zoning ordinance which we were not aware of on whether or not he can put a parking lot in the residential zone. Nancy Whyte- 610 Taurus- She has been representing Dr Pingree for several years on this subdivision from the development right up until the present. Dr Pingree inherited the subdivision. He inherited the plat. Lot 1, Block 1 was designated as a parking lot when it was subdivided to go along with the property on 2nd East. Until October of last year everything from Green's house to the west was zoned R3 for apartments. Every one who bought all around there, Mr Green, Mr Mattock were already across from apartments. It was zoned at that point for R3 and not until that time. When Aimans and Townsends wanted to build nice homes up there, they were concerned about these other lots being able to be zoned R3 so at that point all the lots where Greens live and straight south and across the street, on South 3rd East were included in the covenants, because the covenants override the zoning as long as they are stricter. We went ahead leaving out Lot 1, Block 1 still as a designated parking lot. Lot 1, Block 1 has always been designated as a parking lot. Just since October has the zoning changed. We have tried to protect all of the people buying property up in Sherwood Hills. We want to protect their property so the rest of the lots will sell. That is why all the lots are included in the covenants, except Lot 1, Block 1. Mr Pingree has an investment in that property and he wants what is best for that subdivision. The lots in front may or may not sell, she thought they would if there was a nice green belt in there. Lots across from apartments have sold all over town. If those lots never sell, there is still that buffer between that and the parking lot. Closing Harvard and containing them and funneling the cars out 2nd East is the answer. Kids are going to come and go so there shouldn't be a bottle neck. A lot of them will walk to school anyway because it is so close. Mary Ann Mounts - Told Nancy they should have come to the meeting last fall and told us it was to be a parking lot. Going from R3 to R1 is hard. Nancy said she did not believe that it would lower the property values because there are apartments all around there. Gary Aiman- 350 East 1st South- I just built a home up there last year. We have appreciated the nice residential area. It makes me nervous that there is a gray area in the zoning on whether or not you can come next to my home and put a parking lot. As I read through the zoning ordinance, it seems clear to me that the intent for residential property is not a parking lot. I sympathize that people want the street closed to cut off the traffic flow. The noise potential and the idea that he can come along and put in a parking lot in residential property bothers me. Dave Anderson 224 South 3rd East- As I look at the plans and see the size of the parking lot and the size of the entrances, I am concerned that they will at some other point establish another entrance. I was under the impression that the Planning & Zoning was going to make a recommendation to the city council. What was their recommendation? John Millar told him that at that time it was determined that the property was separated by a city street that it did not meet requirements of the zoning so it probably did not go to the city council. In the minds of the members of the Planning & Zoning Commission, if we block the street off, is the parking lot an appropriate use or is it in the interpretation or intent? John Millar told him there is one clause that says you cannot have a commercial parking lot in a residential zone. Mary Ann Mounts told them on behalf of the Planning & Zoning, when you draw up a zoning ordinance, it is a major operation. This is the first one she had sat in on. She would guarantee that these problems will always come up. We are not really surprised. It happens with everyone. We did not foresee this problem and it is not stated as clear as we would like it to be. If you are asking us if we wanted parking lots to go in R1, no we did not. We have to go with what is in the ordinance. Clyde Luke asked if the lots are available for homes? If they are there would be homes between the Greens and the apartments. Layne Dearden- As everyone Bete up and speaks, I ask myself what ie this person's best interest? Where will they be five years from now? Why are they meeting in the meeting tonight? Some people are here /~ because they want to make a bigger profit on a parcel of land. Some people are at this meeting because their income directly from the real estate is directly influenced by the decision of the city council. His best interest is his neighborhood. He had heard people tonight talking about nice homes. I don't know how much a house has to coat before it is considered a nice home. I live in a nice neighborhood and I am part of my neighborhood. He would like to remind the council that neighborhoods are more that the expense of a house and much more that what is going to happen to the traffic flow. When I vote for people for the city council to make the decisions on any of the things being talked about tonight, and the people the city council appoints to the zoning committee, I did not vote for you collectively because I thought you were the best decision makers in town. I voted for you because you are my friends, because I wanted you to represent me, my wife, my kids and the other people in my neighborhood. The things that are being said tonight, I hope you are listening to and will truly represent us. I plan to be here for a long time. Clyde Luke- I hope I will be here in 25 years from now and I have a vested interest in the neighborhood as well. I don't like parking lots either. I have been told that this project is going to go through, parking lot or no parking lot. That being the case, what we are here to do is to determine whether or not we are going to close the street. Discussion has been mostly on the parking lot. I don't think that is why the hearing was called. Perhaps there will be a separate hearing for that, I hope there will be. The council needs to decide, do you please the fraction who doesn't want the parking lot thus indirectly pleases all, and yet create a wide open traffic problem when the apartments are built on the west side of the street and we get all the traffic down Harvard. Do you think we will re-elect you at that point. Be aware there are two factions not fighting against each other. None of us want the parking lot, but if there are legal ways to prevent the parking lot then I think we have to go with what is the best interest of everyone. There are eleven families who have signed the petition who do not want that traffic up and down that street. Remember we were not here to discuss a parking lot we were here to discuss the facts of reality. Rusty Townsend - 351 East 5th South - I find it funny that they have already talked about the exits. When asked where they would exit, they said South 2nd East for now. They have already been planned. I do not think there is a gray area that you can put a parking lot on LDR1, they have already come to that conclusion. In the definition for LDR1, it says it is for low traffic volume and low nuisance. There is no question, if you put 100 cars on that piece of land it is not low traffic. Mary Ann Mounts stated that working with zoning there is always different interpretations. I am worried that the exit will be on 5th South. If that is the case, lets just close 5th South up to my house, so I don't have to worry about traffic. We all have traffic. I want Mr Pingree to know that I am opposed to it. When I bought that land and went to the zoning meeting, I was under the understanding that would not happen. I am beginning to wish I would have build somewhere else. I am opposed to the closing of Harvard. I am opposed to having the apartment up there. Clyde Luke - Have some studies been done on traffic flow. He was told no. They were told that one exit is all that is required. Nyle Fullmer said there are several apartments around the city that are at least that large with only one exit. John Millar asked Rusty Townsend when he bought his lot? Rusty told him he bought it in August. John said at the time the lot was purchased this whole area was zoned R3. Rich Andrus- Rigby, Thatcher & Andrus- He is representing Mr Henderson. (copy of statement on record) You have the obligation of making decisions for the benefit of the whole community. We can't forget the fact that Ricks College is the life blood of the whole community. It wasn't too many years ago, when everyone in this town was very concerned about loosing Ricks College. We have seen a predominate growth in Ricks College since the 1960'x. Many of us have been a part of that growth. We have seen Rexburg benefit by the growth ~G of Ricks College. I suspect that many of those here tonight who have spoken against providing student housing, probably get their living directly or indirectly from Ricks College. If we want to talk about vested interests, I guess we have to talk about all of our vested interest in Ricks College. I think that most of you are aware that Ricks College is anticipating further development, with a road coming across the south part of town over to 2nd East. 2nd East is a major arterial to Rexburg. The zoning ordinance takes that into account. In the zoning, 2nd East in this area is HDR. As a lawyer, I get nervous about hear-say comments. I think we need to question some of the statements that have been made about land values. Mrs Whyte pointed out that until October this land was all zoned for student housing. If you go up there, you will find four separate four-plex apartments along the north side of this property, and one four-plex across the street from Chris Mattock's house. He bought that property when those multi-unit housing were there. It was zoned multi-unit at that time. If you go across the street, consistent with the former zoning ordinance, there is either a nine unit or 12 unit apartments, several four-plex apartments around that area. If we are talking about vested interest, and being able to sell our property, I suspect that most of these people who spoke tonight, bought their property when they should have known that it was zoned for multi housing. Bill Henderson does things right. He has proved over the years, he likes to do things right. You have before you a plan of how that area will be developed. If that does not develop, you do not have a plan before you of how it will develop, but it will develop because it was zoned that way. That is the logical thing to happen in the best interest of Rexburg. Unless people don't think the growth of Ricks College is important for this town. I hear from these comments a bit of inconsistency. This plan will direct the additional student traffic onto an arterial street. It will keep the traffic off Harvard Ave. The point I wanted to address, I have prepared a written statement on my interpretation of the new zoning ordinance. It is my legal opinion that the new zoning ordinance does not prohibit any type of residential parking, in any type of residential zone. We have to bear in mind that the zoning ordinance by its very nature, is an impairment of property value. It is an impairment of the property of Bill Henderson, to limit his use of it. If the ordinance does not say directly what the restrictions are on that type of development, it exists. It is my opinion, that your ordinance is clear that any type of residential parking in a residential zone is appropriate. Bill Henderson does not suggest that he is going to throw up any type of a parking lot in this area, he has been sensitive to the needs of this area. Harvard Ave is only a part of a street right now, the city does not own a sufficient amount to develop the street. They will have to get property from Mr. Henderson to build a street. Eric Olsen- 305 South 3rd East - I want to speak on behalf of Ricks College. I am assistant dean of students at Ricks. There is an enrollment sealing that has been placed on Ricks College. They are turning away 2000 students. It has been made very clear that Ricks College will not continue to grow. The proposed buildings are proposed to accommodate the students that are already at Ricks College. Those buildings have been put on hold. He was asked if he was speaking for Ricks College. He said he was speaking as an employee of Ricks College. He said he is Assistant Dean Of Students and in the circle of the president and hears what is happening. There is an enrollment sealing and we plan to keep it that way. What Ricks needs is married housing. Mayor Boyle - It irrelevant whether we need student housing. Under our law we cannot say what comes in. Bill said the reason you have not seen a landscaped apartment complex around town is because up until October with the new zoning ordinance, there was very little regulations requiring that. Rusty Townsend - Mr Andrus was talking about the zoning ordinance as it was before. We are talking about the ordinance as it is now. We are talking of how it is now. ~/ Clyde Luke- part of the problem was caused because the Army Reserve Center has closed the street. Val Dietrich- I deal with Real Estate and I plan to to make money on this deal and to loose friends. My father sold the property to the Army Reserve. There was a road that was suppose to go through there. Nothing has been addressed on an alternative. No one likes parking lots, I don't like parking lots either. All the cities with colleges have apartments and parking lots. If we don't have a parking lot, we will have traffic going down Harvard Ave because if Mr Bird decides to build on his property, he will need access to Harvard. Who wants to be across from an apartment. Well they will put in a duplex or a four-plex. The point is this land is for sale and there will be apartments built. You have a plan that you can see and control. If it is not built, another one will be built and you won't have this control. Glen Pond - The comment was made there was not sufficient land for Harvard to go clear through. Where does the city have control of Harvard and where does it not have control. Would we have to get some ground from Mr Henderson to complete Harvard? John Millar - There is no ground that has to be acquired. That piece of right-a-way was in the subdivision. The area where Mr Bird owns and Hillcrest just south of where we are talking does not have adequate right-a-way. Nyle Fullmer - Every issue that involves the neighborhoods is an emotional issue. We are not going to vote on anything tonight, but there are a couple of things that need to be pointed out. Everything to the west of Harvard is already zoned for multi dwelling. If we don't close Harvard, everything between 2nd East and Harvard can then be developed into multi dwelling. Harvard will still be open and the traffic that everyone is so concerned about is still going north and south and down Harvard to 5th South and 3rd South and we will have no control over it. Everyone is talking about the traffic. Everyone needs to take a logical look at the proposal and see if that is what you are concerned about and see how it will affect your neighborhood. If it is the traffic then that is the logical answer or if it is the parking lot then you need to realize that the developments that Val is talking about are still a potential. You need to decide which you would rather look at. I think the way he is presenting it looks good. If that plan is approved, it can be locked up so there is no way he can come back in with a secondary exit. I hope everyone will go from the meeting tonight and take a long hard look at it. Bill - In Mr Green's petition, if in fact we are allowed to put parking on the east side of Harvard, what keeps the other two housing developments to the south from doing the same? John Millar said the covenants of the subdivision state that is not going to happen, so that isn't an issue. Gary Aiman - If they decide to put the apartment complex where it is located without the parking lot, is it allowed for that parking lot to empty onto a residential street on the back side. He was told it was allowed. This happens all over town. Jim Flamm asked if before the new ordinance, were parking lots and apartments allowed? Yes The mayor stated that Planning & Zoning has given more protection not less. They have done nothing to lesson the value of property. (discussion) Randall Porter - 208 East 3rd South- Asked if the road was not closed and there was a traffic problem, could it be made a one way street? He asked the council to consider the option. The mayor said he thought we need to take time and look over all the options. I assume as long as the hearing is still open anyone can bring in testimony to the next meeting. J. D. Hancock stated we will reserve the options. ~~ A motion was made by Brad Liljenquist to take it under advisement until August 5 at 7:15 A. M. Seconded by Glen Pond. All Aye A motion was made by Nyle Fullmer and seconded by Brad Liljenquist to adjourn. All Aye. Mayor, Nile L. Boyle City Clerk, Rose agl (All petitions, letters, and statements concerning the closing of Harvard Avenue are on file at City Ha11 finder file name: Harvard Closure) 1 f~ iJ