Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout1990.05.31 CITY COUNCIL MINUTESThose Present: Public Hearing 05/31/90 Mayor: Council members: Planning Board: City Clerk: Attorney: Nile Boyle Farrell Young Brad Liljenquist Nyle Fullmer Darlene Blackburn Glen Pond Bruce Sutherland John Millar Chris Mix Mike Larson Jim Long Rose Bagley J. D. Hancock RE: DELETION OF PORTION OF FIFTH SOUTH The Public Hearing was held at 8:00 P.M. for proposed amendment to delete that portion of the 5th South street between S 4th E and Shoshone Avenue, which street has been designated as a primary arterial through street on Map A, of the Rexburg Comprehensive Plan 2000. Mayor Boyle stated that a Public Hearing was held by the Planning & Zoning last week. Tonight is the second required hearing. RE: CLOSING OFF CITY STREETS Cliff Jaussi-He commented that he was opposed to closing anymore streets in the city. When you close a street you think it will only harm the people in that area, but it harms the whole city so they can't move. This is a proven fact. You look at 1st East and see the traffic that has been moved to 2nd East. He felt we need to leave the road open and find ways of moving traffic better in more places.We think we have cars now but, wait a few years and see how many we have as we face the future and development. How are you going to move traffic in this city? The college is blocking off the streets that are by the college. You can't move in that part of town. We have got to leave our streets open so we can move around. There are thousands of cars and college students that go up and down 2nd East every day. There is going to be more every year. The kids who don't have a car this year will have one next year. With the traffic we have by Erickson Pontiac, people are going to work and coming into town. There is so much traffic you can't get through the street. As we have people building up by 5th South we will have some of the same problems. They say they have a lot children up there, but you will have a lot of children everywhere. We have school buses picking up kids all over town and a guard at the crosswalk as a safety factor. We need more streets to move our traffic from one part of the city to another and not to close them off. RE: METHODS OF PLANNING Jim Long - He was not able to attend the hearing with the Planning Commission. He was at a Planning conference in Alaska. Part of the conference dealt with the largest national forest in America. By attending the conference he had emphasized to him the importance of the planning process. He was not opposed the Greg's plan and the subdivision for cul de sacs and not opposed to the closing of 5th South. What he is opposed to is the means that we are going about to do it. We need to have emphasized to us to look at the total picture. We represent the people and we need to respond to them. We are responding to the developer or to the people that signed the petition, but our responsibility on the Planning & Zoning and the responsibility as members of the city council is to use the saying "the greatest good for the greatest number of people for the longest period of time." We are putting out a brush fire now. We need to look at a long term picture and do further study. We have not studied the traffic patterns or other possibilities. We need to look further. s (-Q RE: SUPPORTING THE CHANGE IN PLANNING Mike Larson- My position on this remains, he did not see Greg's plan as being contrary to the orderly development of that area. He supported what Jim said about the study of traffic patterns. RE: INFORMATION ON TRAFFIC ENGINEERS FOR PLANNING The mayor said before we set up the legal hearings, the council had instructed him to do some checking with a traffic engineer. He had checked with the Transportation Department and they had given him some names of several engineering firms in Idaho that do traffic engineering. There was one out of Boise and he stopped here on his way to Jackson. We weren't paying him so he did not give out a lot of free information. He did say that you should have a major through a street every mile and an arterial through street every half mile for good planning. To get the type of planning that Jim is talking about, we are going to have to spend some money to get a traffic engineer to do it. That won't help this project. The last time they did the Comprehensive Plan it took about three years. RE: SUPPORT ON CLOSURE OF FIFTH SOUTH Camille Mortensen - She lives on 450 and is interested in living on 5th South if the development is developed. The feeling she has that she doesn't understand why that for good city planning you need to have through streets. Rexburg isn't that big of a town. The only two through streets that we have that go all the way is 2nd South and 2nd East. She said that was sufficient for the size of the town we have. If we close 5th South, she thought it would accomplish a lot of purposes that would be coherent with a good plan. (1) 4th East will go as far east as you want. (2) You can put 5th East as far south as you want. Shoshone already runs into Richard Smith's property. You don't need anymore streets in that particular area. Your main traffic coming into that area is going to be coming from west to east not from north to south. If you have 5th South as a through street, it is also designated as an extra wide street. If you project it to go through to Millhollow, you are going to have a lot of unwanted traffic in there. She has asked the Traffic and Safety Committee for the past three years to address the problem we have on 450 South with motorcyles and snow mobiles. The stop signs were put in the wrong place. She is concerned with the potential traffic hazard on 5th South. The closure of 1st East was a poor decision. Closing 5th South is a different issue. It is up on the south end of town. The only people accessing that area are residents. 1st East is not a residential area. She was all for closing 5th South. RE: AGAINST CLOSURE OF FIFTH SOUTH Nyle Fullmer- The cul de sac is not the issue it is the closure of the street. His feeling is the way our community is growing, Rexburg is growing beyond a small city. He is concerned that we will loose the small town feeling of trying to make things work for the community. We want to make it attractive enough for other people to want to come in. We need to establish some areas within out community that are a little more exclusive for those people that have reached that status where they can afford to spend the kind of money to put up the kind of homes that would be needed to meet the covenants that Greg has proposed in that area. He agreed with what Mrs. Mortensen had to say. The streets that have been closed are different kind of streets than what we are looking at here. 1st East, Center Street, and 4th South are major arterials and they revolve right around the hub of Rexburg. There were some mistakes there. We need to learn from those. If we close of 5th South, we are looking at possible another 30 seconds to get around the block with emergency services, it might mean life and death. He did not know if it would effect the community to allow the cul de sacs to go in. He still had some reservations about changing the master plan as quickly as we have tried. That area would be a nice area if we let the sub division go in. RE: SUGGESTING OTHER ALTERNATIVES FOR FIFTH SOUTH 17 John Millar- One of the main questions that has arisen on this is are we for or against Greg's subdivision? His concern with the sub division right now is are we throwing out the master plan for the convenience of one developer? It would be nice to have an area like this. There are 1000 acres on the bench. If we are going to abondon the master plan at the convenience of the developer, he could move over one street and develop. We are looking at two streets on the master plan, Shoshone and 5th South. The comment has been made, Shoshone can't go any place because it runs into Richard Smith's property. That is a matter of shifting over 30 feet and going up the hill. There is no need to condemn his property. The other thing we will need to look at is that we are saying abandon the master plan, close 5th south and close Shoshone but we have not come up with any other alternatives to alleviate the traffic problem that will develop in the future in that area. Nothing has been reviewed as an alternative. Before we close and abandon the master plan, we look at other alternatives. RE: AGAINST THROWING OUT MASTER PLAN Bruce Sutherland- He had felt all a long that the main flaw in the whole plan was the conflict it had with the master plan. There has been hundreds or maybe thousands of hours put into this master plan. Trying to abandon it in two quick meetings without getting input from the whole city is not right. For that reason, he opposes to it. He did not think we could justify throwing out the master plan for an immediate development. There could be revisions in the development. He has a problem with messing with the master plan and having so little input. Glen Pond- He was not opposed to the way the subdivision is designed, however when we look at the comprehensive plan, there were four entities with the assistance of some engineers that put the master plan together consisting of the county commissioners, Madison County zoning, city council, and the Rexburg Planning & Zoning. As he read the names on the comprehensive plan, we could see we had some citizens that did a lot of work on this plan. He could see Mrs Mortensen's view, and that right now putting in the cul de sacs wouldn't affect anything because we are a small community, however when the comprehensive plan was put together things had to be looked at to what would happen in the future. If Rexburg continues to grow, then things should develop and there should be more homes on the hill further to the south of the proposed 5th South. Any cul de sacs would be more than welcome in a development further south from there. To change the comprehensive plan within a four month period, he didn't feel like we have had the input from those people that put together the comprehensive plan. I think it warrants more effort on the city's part in gaining the input from the other parties that developed the master plan. Until that is done he did not see how we could make the motion to close 5th South. Jim Long- There are some good examples where this has taken place in Rexburg, looking at 2nd South and go east to the Lincoln School, at 2nd South it narrows down to a narrow street where a developer said we don't want our streets to fit a master plan so all of a sudden, the street is narrow and then two or three blocks on up toward the Lincoln School it becomes wide again. You see the same thing as you go on 1st South. There are two prime examples of what can happen through spot planning when you plan for the minute and not for the future. That is what we are fighting for, to do a good job in planning for the future. Nyle Fullmer - He agreed that Glen Pond made a valid point. If Greg would be patient until next meeting that would give us a chance to talk to the county and discuss it among ourselves. Greg Fullmer- He said he felt that the decision had already been made. Farrell Young - Asked Greg if 5th South was left open would he abandon the sub division? Greg Fullmer- He said he could do one of two things (1) he could not develop it. (2) Could go ahead and develop it with the current plan. He could reduce the covenants and go at it different. He didn't know what he would do at this point. Nyle Fullmer- Telling Greg that if he believes the subdivision is the right way to go give us two more weeks to study it. This is a small thing to ask. Farrell Young asked if two weeks would make a difference or if it would take two years. He thought it would be a viable option. Nyle Fullmer said we represent more than just that area of people. What is good for the smaller portion isn't always good for the larger portion. Rex Larson- If you close 5th South, would the people in that area like the traffic rather than going on 5th South to go past their current house now. Mayor said he had talked to three people that was opposed to closing 5th South, but did not come to the meeting or send a written statement. Nancy White- It was her feeling that the reason we have a public hearing is for people to come. There has not been oposition from the public. If they were concerned about the street being closed, they would show up at one of the public hearings. Darlene Blackburn- If we want that type of people to come here that has the money to build those fancy homes we will have to allow this type of a sub division because if they don't come here they will go to Idaho Falls or another place. Jim Long- What is the function of the comprehensive plan. Do we have the plan? Before you make the decision you need to ask yourself that question. Nyle Fullmer- He believed that this is the guideline. When those people put the plan together, they didn't foresee what would happen on Millhollow. We still need to use it as a guideline. We might need to make some serious changes to it. We need some viable options. We need to expand the master plan so the bulk of the traffic can be taken care of. We are dealing with a two block street. Jim Long - He had worked with one of the best planners, who said you have to recognize that a plan is the place you start from. We need to ask ourselves, what is the function of the comprehensive plan. It begins to look like we are working around that. Nyle Fuller- The issue we need to address is what are we going to do further south. Glen Pond- You have to remember we have already addressed that the next arterial will be 9th South. Nyle Fullmer- If this plat is adopted, he did not think we needed to look at abandoning Shoshone. That is a significant arterial. That needs to be addressed with more time. Bruce Sutherland- We are going to be doing some major re -zoning and maybe we can include this in the study and get as much input as we can. That would take probably a year. The streets are for everyone in the city. If we had a complete plan and the studies done, and had some advise from some experts, he would have no problem. A motion was made by Bruce Sutherland that we do not change the comprehensive plan at this time and wait for further study to do that. Greg Fullmer- A motion like that is a decision. Mayor Boyle stated that it would be a postponed and possibly would forbid any building this summer. Greg Fullmer- He would question how fair that is because people have done what has been ask of them. He had worked with all recommendations and spent money and prolonging it isn't fair. He had lost one buyer. The motion was seconded by Glen Pond. Nyle Fullmer- Ask John Millar how much time the study would take. John said it might possibly take 6 months. Jim Long- Ask if the council would direct the Planning & Zoning to direct a study. Bruce Sutherland- This hearing is just amending the plan. We need to take six months or what ever time it takes to do the study. The mayor ask for a vote. Those voting aye: Glen Pond Bruce Sutherland Those voting nay: Darlene Blackburn Nyle Fullmer Brad Liljenquist Farrell Young A motion was made by Nyle Fullmer to postpone the decision on the abandoning 5th South and changing the master plan until the next city council meeting, on June 13. J. D. Hancock said with this motion we could just continue the hearing at that council meeting. Seconded by Brad Liljenquist. Those voting aye: Nyle Fullmer Brad Liljenquist Those voting nay: Darlene Blackburn Farrell Young Bruce Sutherland Abstaining: Glen Pond Farrell Young- It is less than one mile from 2nd South to 5th South. In the recommendation the mayor got from Boise, we would be within that recommendation to go to 7th South or even 9th South to have a major arterial away from 2th South. A motion was made by Darlene Blackburn to wait until we get a recommendation from Planning & Zoning and have it by June 13. Motion cancelled for lack of a second. A motion was made by Farrell Young that one half block of one block of the master plan that we are dealing with isn't that big of a problem and can make the adjustment without putting in great jeopardy the future of Rexburg. He suggested that we go ahead and let them develop this nice sub division by closing 5th South. Although 5th South will be a nice feeder it won't go through to Shoshone. We need to make a decision now and allow them to proceed as outlined to make that small adjustment on 5th South, and close Shoshone. In the future we could discuss the possiblity of putting through 7th South or 9th South or extending 4th east around so it circled around to 2nd East. Nyle Fullmer said he was not ready to close Shoshone. RE: SHOSHONE STREET Greg Fullmer- This is the first time he had heard of Shoshone going all the way through. Right now there is only a half street. To put Shoshone through you would have to go over onto Richard Smiths property. To do that you would have to condemn it. Shoshone is not feasible to go through. Nyle Fullmer said he disagreed. The plan shows that Shoshone can go clear through. We can extend it south and go around Richard's house. Motion was seconded by Darlene Blackburn. Judy Harding- You have already done a study, so why are you jumping in and letting a developer say I'll bring money in and a few rich people who are going to put extra traffic on poor people. City streets should be available to everyone in the city and not just those rich people. It is nice to drive through town and get where you want to go and not have to wind around. That does not seem fair when you as a council are voting for the city. 10 Jim Long said you are doing what he had been talking about a little bit Of something instead of looking at total impact without a study. Cliff Jaussi-He thought the council should take the information and get a study and take some time. Chris Mix- My experience with tough situations is you are dealing between two rights. You need to get expert advise. Get someone with letters behind their name to give us some advise. The mayor ask for a vote on the motion. Those voting aye: Farrell Young Darlene Blackburn Those voting nay: Glen Pond Brad Liljenquist Nyle Fullmer Bruce Sutherland Farrell Young suggested that we tell Greg something. Possibly he could go back to the original plat. Nyle Fullmer said he agreed with what Jim and John had said. He did not like the fact that we are trying to jump on this right now. Bruce Sutherland said he did not know how soon he could have enough information. He agreed with what Chris said we need to get some expert advise. Before we abandon what we have, we need to be sure of what we are doing. Brad asked if we could work on this thing until June 13 then we would be able to come to a decision. Bruce said that would be rushing it. A motion was made by Farrell Young to make a decision right now to let the street stay open and go back to the original plat, or else he won't be able to wait until we find alternatives. Glen Pond stated that we did not need a motion for that because it is already that way. Nyle Fullmer told Greg if he could deal with Shoshone differently he would be ready to vote to close 5th South. Greg proposed to leave the cul de sacs in and leave Shoshone as is on the master plat. He would cut the lots down on the east side. That would leave a 1/2 street on Shoshone. The mayor stated that if you did that he would have to sign an agreement to that he pave that half of Shoshone when it was paved or post a bond. John Millar said that the Sub Division stated that we don't allow 1/2 streets. A motion was made by Farrell Young to abandon 5th South but not Shoshone as currently on the master plan. Seconded by Nyle Fullmer. A discussion followed. Nyle Fullmer withdrew his second. Motion died with a lack of a second. RE: HIRE A CONSULTANT TO COME UP WITH BASIC CONCEPTS Jim Long ask if the city could hire a consultant to come up with some basic concepts nothing fancy that could be presented to Planning & Zoning before the next meeting. Chris Mix suggested that we have some qualified people in this area. Jim said we need to look at from an economic, engineering, evormental, and ethnic point of view. A motion was made by Nyle Fullmer that we continue the hearing at the next meeting on June 13. Seconded by Darlene Blackburn. Those voting aye: Nyle Fullmer Darlene Blackburn Glen Pond Darlene Blackburn Those voting nay: Farrell Young Bruce Sutherland RE: RESEARCH The mayor stated that the motion passed. We will do some research. He ask John Millar as a city engineer if he could get some drawings. We could have work meeting with the Planning & Zoning, City Council, County Commissioner. The meeting was scheduled June 7 at 7:30 P.M. RE: EXCEPT THE PRELIMINARY PLAT FOR THE RICKS PALMER SUBDIVISION The mayor presented a preliminary plat for the Ricks Palmer Sub Division. A motion was made by Darlene Blackburn and seconded by Glen Pond to accept the preliminary plat. All Aye RE: FIREWORKS PERMITS The mayor read the fireworks permits. Payless Drug John D Bonner at Main Street and 2nd West John Dunckley on the Mountain Meadow Landscaping location Pyrodyne at Broulims Pyrodyne on Diet Center lot on 2nd East The mayor said he had a request to extend the time they could sell fireworks. The attorney stated that the ordinance would have to be amended. A motion was made by Glen Pond and seconded by Nyle Fullmer to approve the fireworks permits. All Aye. RE: CLEAN UP AROUND THE PUMPHOUSE LOT The mayor told the council he had a picture that a lady brought in of the Pumphouse lot, requesting that the city clean up the lot to comply with the nuisance ordinance. Brad Liljenquist stated that it is a problem and we should either put up a board fence or move the junk. The mayor asked the council to go look at it so we could make a decision as to what to do. Chris Mix stated that it needs to be consistant with the neighborhood. Jim Long stated that it was grandfathered in as a pump house but the use is changed. Nyle stated that it is in a central location. Jim Long stated that if it is fenced it would need to comply with the setbacks. RE: GARBAGE The mayor stated that he had a call from an attorney representing a party who is interested in taking over the garbage service. Glen Pond stated that if we want to contract the garbage out it would have to be put up for bids. Bruce Sutherland stated that we have too much invested to contract it out. Glen Pond felt that now we have control over it and we have the spring clean up that we need to consider. RE: MEETING ADJOURNED A motion was made by Brad Liljenquist and seconded by Nyle Fuller to adjourn. All Aye. fi�t /"'&`U Mayor, Nile L. Boyl City lerk, Ros a e