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HomeMy WebLinkAboutP&Z MINUTES JANUARY 14, 1998`~1~ DATE: (011498)- Planning & Zoning 1/14/98 7:00 P. M. Those Present: Acting Chairman: Mary Ann Mounts Excused: John Millar Members Present: Gary Steiner Jim Long Doug Smith Ted Whyte. Mike Thueson John Watson Roger Muir Davawn Beattie City Clerk: Rose Bagley Attorney: Stephen Zollinger Engineer: Joe Laird Assistant Engineer: Val Christensen Councilmember: Bruce Sutherland ~~. T: T ,a •~ •i b" PC^er .M,;: ~~.. tC apprO~r°- the A mGtZGi1 Was iTiauc by uiiTi L~iiu aiiu SeCviiueu y y minutes of 12/10/97. All Aye A motion was made by Roger Muir and seconded by John Watson to approve the minutes of 11/19/97. All Aye RE: DIVERS DOWN TOPIC: (500,45,,,NIEDERER*TERRELL,IMPACT ZONE,ZONE CHANGE) Terrell Niederer/Business (Divers Down) with trailers on his property. For the past year he has had his business located at 145 West Main but because of rent and high utilities they have decided to move the business. He developed a business out of his home. He is asking to be allowed to run his business. It is not just a retail business,' it is actually a educational facility. The reason he brought this into the community is he felt the community needed a new type of interest. He did not feel his business would be a high impact. It is a pretty quietly run operation. It is located on this side of the Comfort Inn. The property was owned by Ora Green and is in the Impact Zone. Jim Long pointed out that this was not a Home Occupation because of the amount of space used for the business according to the ordinance. Mr Niederer pointed out it is not actually in his home. Mary Ann told him the definition of Home Occupation if it has to be within a home that is lived in. This is zoned Rural Residential in the Impact Zone. Stephen pointed out it was not allowed in that zone and the only way it would work would be with a zone change with Public Hearing Hearings. It is contiguous with H.B.D. and L.D.R.. The type of business was explained, G~ he teaches a class two or three times a week and then goes out. to Ririe Lake or another lake and teaches the class. (discussion) Jim Long made a motion that he apply for a Zone Change as the only cause of action available. Seconded by Davawn Beattie. All Aye Stephen told him his sign is illegal and would need to be removed. Stephen also told him it would take three public hearings one before the Planning & Zoning, one before the City Council, and one before the County Commissioners. Mr. Niederer stated he would just forget it. RE: NAME CHANGE FOR OLD HIGHWAY 20 TOPIC: (500,46,,,WILCOX POTATO,HYW 20,2ND W,HYW 191) Name change for Old Highway 20 and the cross road near Wilcox Potato that will_ eventually curve on up 2nd West. Mary Ann asked if there had been a request for this change. Joe stated there was not a request for this change but himself making the suggestion. The reason he brought it up is when they submitted maps to the people that make the maps for various areas, we show on the map a section of old 191 Highway from 4th south on down below and it connects to nothing. They questioned where does this highway go to? It is an old highway designation that really does not fit anything. Do we want a name on the cross street going through the interchange or just leave it a number street? Joe stated he had several calls protesting the change of the name of old 191 because Of the C6st xnvoived. We r'iaV'e aiS^v reCe3.Ved .,, letter i n protest. (attached) Stephen stated the naming of the streets are not necessarily connected. Bruce Sutherland commented, several years ago there was a petition from Amdohl Corporation to rename 4th North to Technology Drive. It was not long after that it went out of business and all the other businesses wanted that road changed back to 4th North and we changed it back. Because of that changing the name is a bad experience. Everyone in this area knows where Highway 191 is. Stephen told the numbering of that road would be 10th South for the City and about 15th South for the county. The county numbers their streets in miles, starting at the courthouse. We number our streets in blocks. Bruce stated that Madison County and the City of Rexburg streets coincide better than any other area he had been in or delivered flpc,,ierg ;n~ Stephen stated that considerable discussion has taken place on how to better realign it. At the present time the intention is to renumber all streets within the Impact Area with city addressing as opposed to county and leave the county addressing in small print underneath and we will deal with it as the Impact Area expands. Mary Ann stated with her background in planning she felt all streets should be numbers and no names. Bruce agreed that it makes it a lot easier to find. (discussion) It was decided by the board that name of the road South Highway 191 should not be changed. Discussion on 1500 South going to the Interchange. It was felt by the board to wait to change the name of that street to a number when the .system was completed by the committee working on it. {~ RE: SIGN ORDINANCE CHANGE TOPIC: (500, 4'~,,,SIGNS,SHOPPING PLAZA'S,BROULIMS) Sign Ordinance-.Joe had mailed out handouts discussing changes that need to be made on the ordinance. Stephen told the group the ordinance needs to be changed so the city does not get sued. There are far too many openings in the ordinance. It does not address Shopping Plazas. It was felt that we need to change the ordinance so they can't put an off premise sign on their neighbor's property. Stephen told them the ordinance needs to deal with shopping plazas. (discussion) Stephen stated the way they have this platted, Broulims could put a sign on the parcel that belongs to the tenants which would qualify as an off premise sign that would be exactly three feet away from where Broulims want their sign, but it would be an Off Premise sign which would allow them 200 square feet. The tenant could then turn around and put a 200 square foot sign somewhere on Broulims parcel which would be an Off Premise Sign and the corner lot is its own premise so you could jockey those around so you could have three 200 square foot signs all within our ordinance. Stephen felt the board should look at Plazas in general because there is another Plaza that is coming in and will create the same problem only worse because their intention is have three or four large parcels with within the Plaza. They have already indicated that if he has to he will Sell them OTf lri order to get the signs the tenants 'Want. The only Plaza we have right now as a true Plaza is K Mart. The Walmart Plaza has individual owners for each business. Stephen told the board they could put any restriction they want on this. The restriction as it is right now is indefensible. (discussion) Roger pointed out if we are too restrictive we are not doing justice to a large business. Val Christensen stated that he deals with the enforcement of the Sign Ordinance. Some of problems he has thought about as he works with this is frontage is not a set answer. He had seen in Denver where K Mart was in the back of the lot with satellite businesses in front and K Mart just had a driveway going into it with a big sign. If you were to measure their frontage, they would not of had any frontage. You .see this with Broulims with a couple of satellites out in front and a large business in back. It is not a very representative way to do it. He felt that building square footage makes more sense. Joe suggested that it might be better to set up both systems. (He gave a handout to illustrate both systems with formulas and explained.) (attached) Joe then explained the way Boise handles it, they have a general sign plan that is drawn up and approved right with developing plan for the shopping center. At the time the developer brings in his preliminary drawing that shows all the businesses they also bring in a plan how many signs and how many square footage of signage that will be allowed for the shopping center and the amount that is allocated out to the all the individual businesses is written right into the various lease or • ~~ sale agreement so that amount of square footage of sign area goes right along with the various lease of sale agreement. Boise says they allow just 200 square feet for a shopping center sign but they allow the signs within the mall or strip mall area to have their own individual signs that can be mounted separately or part of the big mall sign. Each of those can be either 70 or 80 square feet for each business in the shopping center. Pocatello has used the lineal foot of frontage. They have modified it a little with a lineal foot of building frontage and an lineal foot of open space frontage. That still leaves a problem with like Broulims and Walmart where you have sold off the building frontage, it leaves nothing for the big shopping malls back further inside. (discussion) John Watson stated that we want to encourage more business but he questions if more signs helps business. He did not think you could go strictly on street frontage or strictly on building area but possibly on the maximum size which would be the biggest sign. We also need to control the maximum size of a sign. Stephen suggested that you give them a maximum size don't say once you have used the maximum size you are done. You could say the maximum size sign is 200 square feet but you could have a second size 300 feet away or some distance. It has to be objective not subjective. You can't defend giving the same size sign for a 200,000 square foot business that spans a block as you give the 50,^v00 square foot business that spans a quarter of a block. Right now if three different owners built three different stores, they each get the 200 square foot sign legally. Can you justify limiting a full block store to one sign when the ordinance would allow three different owners to put up three individual signs in that same place? (discussion) Stephen explained how a formula could be developed for the ordinance. A motion was made by Davawn Beattie to recommend that we eliminate Off Premise Signs from the Sign Ordinance unless granted by a Conditional Use Permit after showing a hardship or a unique situation and the sign cannot be bigger than a maximum size as allowed by the ordinance. Seconded by Mike Thueson. All Aye Discussion on formula. A motion was made by John Watson to recommend that the maximum size of and single free standing sign on a pedestal cannot exceed 200 square feet. Seconded by Davawn Beattie. All Aye A motion was made by Mike Thueson, that we base the factor on the foot print or the actual square footage of the entire anticipated developed piece of property. Seconded by Roger Muir. All Aye Discussion • Ta A motion was made by Mike Thueson and seconded by Jim Long that Joe, Stephen and Val work on it and come up with a factor for the next meeting. They suggested that there would be a total of three signs on a city block. Meeting Adjourned. • i• Bell Builder's Supply, Inc. 851 South Hwy. 191 Rexburg, ID 83440 356-3361 - Jan. 13, 1998 Planning & Zoning City Hall Rexburg, ID 83440 I read in the Rexburg Standard Journal newspaper that you are considering criangirig t he riGtlile Gf S +1' u'g'l"'. y y O~ o uLll 111 11Wa iJ 1. I am writing to ask you to not change the name. This will cause problems and expense to everyone who uses this address. All billing statements, envelopes and letter heads have to be changed making those in current stock obsolete. Also, all suppliers have to be notified of a change of address or mail will not be delivered. We have made the change from South Yellowstone Highway to South Highway 191 and see no reason to make another change. Sincerely, ~t~~(_ gent J. dell President •