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HomeMy WebLinkAboutP&Z MINUTES JUNE 22, 19946T DATE: (062294) Planning & Zoning 6/22/94 7:00 P. M. Present: Chairman: John Millar Members: Jerry Jeppesen Marsha Bjornn Jim Long Richard Smith Davawn Beattie John Watson Mary Ann Mounts (arriving about Jeff Walters excused City Clerk: Rose Bagley Attorney: J. D. Hancock Engineer: Joe Laird Councilman: Bruce Sutherland and Glen Pond 9:00 P. M.) A motion was made by Jim Long and seconded by John Watson to approve the minutes of 4/27/94. All Aye A motion was made by Jim Long and seconded by Davawn Beattie to approve the minutes of 5/26/94. All Aye A motion was made by John Watson and seconded by Davawn Beattie to approve the minutes of 6/9/94. A11 Aye RE: WALL BY BEEHIVE CREDIT UNION TOPIC: {300,62,,,BEEHIVE CREDIT UNION,WALLS,FENCES,VARIANCES) John Millar read a letter from Beehive Credit Union regarding a fence they put in that is not in compliance. (Attached) Saying they will request a variance or remove the portion of the fence not in compliance. Jim stated that the Board of Directors and City Council need to be made aware that the contractor was told when he could have corrected it when the concrete was wet and he did not. RE: STREET AND SIDEWALK WIDTHS DISCUSSED TOPIC: (300,62, „ STREETS,SIDEWALKS,ORDINANCES) Discussion on an ordinance to modification to our Street Widths. Joe explained. He did have reservations on setting widths for major streets, because of different circumstances. We might want to treat them on an individual basis. As far as sidewalk widths go, he suggested a 5' sidewalk. There is a lot of variation in different cities as far as the width goes. He discussed a varying sidewalk width. There is a problem with the mail boxes in the sidewalks and a four foot sidewalk. (discussion on sidewalks and width of streets) John Watson felt we need to study and discuss this ordinance before we adopt it. The existing problems need to be analyzed from the existing ordinance. John Millar stated he had a problem as to the definition for major, collector streets, or minor streets, how does that decision i ~F ~ ` r • ~~ get made? Bruce suggested that someone will have to sit down and .designate all that. John Watson also stated that he did not see where it said how many exits were required by a church or stake center. If it will create a traffic problem and we don't feel good about it, we need a regulation in writing, because we have to stick by the ordinance. He also suggested that the ordinance be reviewed so if there is anything that needs to be added to it to help with future development. It was decided to table it until the board has time to study it further. John Millar stated that our Comprehensive Plan is out dated and we need to at some time start work on it. RE: PUBLIC HEARING TO CREATE 4 NEW ZONES TOPIC: (300,63,,,PUBLIC HEARINGS,ZONING,LDR2 ZONE) 7:30 Public Hearing: A Public Hearing regarding proposed amendments and changes of City of Rexburg Zoning Ordinance No. 725, to create four (4) new zones designated as Rural Residential (RR}, Agricultural (A-1) , Agricultural (A-2), and Low Density Residential (LDR-2). Kerry Powell- 625 Laleene- He understood that there is a proposed change in that area with some of those lots from LDR1 to LDR2. The people in that area are concerned about that particular change. They have no real objection to the LDR2 somewhere in the city, but we feel that is not the place for it because there is already quite a bit of congestion in that area. Changing it from 8000 square feet to 6000 square feet would mean more homes and more vehicles. Also we are concerned that it will affect our property values. The Local Planning Act of 1978, mandated cities and counties to adopt zoning ordinances to help stabilized property values in neighborhoods. We feel like probably other areas should be looked at within the city other than right there in that spot. Most of the people in our area feel the same as he does. They just simply don't want it. John Millar asked if he was opposed to the zones. He stated that he was not opposed to the zones but was opposed to changing the zoning in that particular area in the Ricks Palmer Sub Division to LDR2. what they were opposed to. John told him we would address that in a separate hearing in about 10 minutes. John Watson stated that LDR2 in whatever area that is decided allows for a 6000 square foot size lot instead of an 8000 square foot lot. We reviewed this as a committee and with the city planner in Idaho Falls and they were surprised that in our ordinance we did not have a smaller low income homes to be built on smaller lots. In Idaho Falls the ordinance does provide for this type of a zone. He was involved in the committee that researched that and it was his recommendation that we allow for that Zone, because there are some properties now that will sit in weeds because of their size, it would be impossible for anyone to build on those lots. Jerry Jeppesen- Are all the parameters within these zones already defined or just the zone to be created? John Millar told him we were just looking at the zones which are basically the Impact Zones and the addition of the new zone LDR2. Jerry stated that we still have not finished the parameters of those Agriculture zones according to his understanding, because there were some things we need to work out. We have not seen a completed copy of the definitions. (discussion) Jerry stated that he needed to review the changes before voting on them. A motion was made by Richard Smith with respect to Zone Al, A2 and RR that we table it for now to answer our concerns. (We had discussed amending. that to address some of the commissioners concerns regarding setback in RR because that had not been addressed in these proposed zones and the commissioners had made it very clear how they felt it necessary to address the setbacks on the major arterials.) His motion was to table any action on those zones. Seconded by Jim Long. All Aye RE: LDR2 ZONE CREATED TOPIC: (300,64,,,LDR2 ZONE,ZONING) A motion was made by John Watson to approve the LDR2 Zone with the understanding that all we are doing is approving the Zone, it has not been established anywhere yet and the only change is that it be 6000 foot lot size, all the setbacks are the same as LDR1. Seconded by Davawn Beattie. All Aye RE: PUBLIC HEARING FOR REQUEST FOR LDR2 ZONE IN RICKS/PALMER SUBDIVISION; REQUEST DENIED TOPIC: (300,64,,,RICKS/PALMER SUBDIVISION,SUBDIVISIONS,ZONING, PUBLIC HEARINGS,LDR2 ZONE) 7:45 P. M. Public Hearing: Regarding proposed amendments and changes of City of Rexburg, Zoning Ordinance No. 725 to provide as follows: That the following described property be zoned LDR-2 rather that LDR-1 as it is presently zoned. Property located in the Ricks-Palmer Subdivision, No. 2, Lots 13, 14, 15, and 16, Block 2; Lots 2, 3 and 4, Block 3: Lots 2, 3, 4, and 5, Block 4; and the remaining unplatted portion of said subdivision. The request was made by Dean Ricks for those zone changes. Dean Ricks- (gave a handout to audience and board) Primarily he wanted to change the zone for the lots joining the trailer court, so he would have some lots to build a house that is not so expensive. (showing a plan of the house) When I asked for this change it was to change the balance of the lots, but possibly we could change the zone only in a section. John Millar told him we could modify all or part of it. The houses he is proposing has 1272 square feet in them. Mrs Caffaro stated her home is 2200, so that would be half of a house. Dean stated it was a whole house and that was what most of them had until they finished their basements. This house will sell for under $70,000, and it would make a difference of $2400 with the smaller lot. That makes a lot of people out of the range to build a house. Mrs Caffaro argued against that. John Millar called the meeting to order. Dean Ricks said all the rumors he had heard about him building apartment houses were false, he just wanted a smaller lot to take care of the need that is essential for people that are a little lower in income. ~~ John Watson stated that he did not understand the exact number of lots he was talking about? He was talking only about unsold existing lots and lots to the East. Dean stated that these people were saying they were better than the ones in the Trailer Park, so lets build this nice house in between the two. If we put all of those lots in, it would make four extra lots. Dean stated that he would change his request for only the unsold lots on the East. John Millar clarified Dean's request to modify his request to include only the lots in the row of four lots presently platted and another 12 lots that are shown as future platted that are adjacent to the trailer park and he has requested that those. 16 lots be rezoned only, 2 through 17. Shari Caffaro- 319 Rodney Drive- We feel we have been lied to. We were told lot 2, 13, 14, 15 and 16 in Block 2, lots 2,3,4 in block 3 lots 2, 3, 4, 5. You are talking about $90,000 homes that were bought last year that he is going to put $70,000 home next to them - a half of a size of a home. We are all for other people having a home. We are saying we don't want those smaller homes to devaluate our homes that are in now. All of our homes are on 8000 and he wants to 6000 square feet and put five homes on four lots. That is pushing a lot of people and kids into a neighborhood. Already the traffic flow is horrendous coming in and out of the neighborhood. She is afraid of her kids getting hit by a car and we are putting more kids in the same neighborhoad. My home is 2200 square feet and I have four kids. This will take the value of the homes down that are now on the market. If he wants to build those small homes, that is fine just build them on the lots that are 8000 square foot lots, to keep the neighborhood in the same condition that it is now. It is a nice neighborhood. We don't want the smaller homes "pitched" together. (discussion on Dean Ricks changing his mind, John Millar called the meeting to order) She stated if the houses are not right together, they won't look as small and there would not be as much traffic or children or crime. E. J. Caffaro- 319 Rodney- First of all you start out in that one area so you can buffer next to the trailer court and the next thing, no one will buy a house next to those $69,000 houses so keep expanding. So tonight it is one area and next it will be another area. We have also saved our hard earned money to buy our homes. You are only going to save someone $2400, let them wait another year to buy their home. We had to wait 10 years before we bought a home. People all over have to save for a home, asking Dean what $2400 would do for him? Today it is to buffer the trailer court then you can't build $90,000 homes next to the $69,000 homes then you will try to rezone the next area up. Dean- If we leave these lots that size, he will put these little house right down by their houses. That is what he would have to do. If he can't get $2400 out of those lots, he just as well put it right over by those houses so he can get the $2400 out of them. Mr Caffaro stated that this was their life time investment. They don't have a lot of money to invest. Rockie Hammond- 659 Laleene- A11 the lots in question buffer the trailer court. We know that those lots will be hard to sell. We are not making a personal attack on the trailer court. He had only lived in the neighborhood for a year. He has great concerns and he lives far away from the trailer court. He even had concerns before he moved in because of the possible effect of the trailer court on the lots in that area, but we still felt that was the best area we could get the best deal for the money we had to spend on a house. We enjoy and love our neighborhood. We don't want to move out of it. We feel like this issue is do we need more or less lots. It is an issue of financing. In order to sell those lots, they will have to be sold for a cheaper price than the other lots. If those houses are sold then there needs to be a buffer between houses and those lots. There is no way you can tell me our property values will not go down if we give in and say that size of lots will not affect our neighborhood. As far as Mr Ricks goes, he helped me get into my house and I will be grateful for-that at the same time when our house out grew our house we could not get any equity out of our house. We would of had to stay in that house, if his parents would not have helped them with some money. I feel our property value will be decreased. There are other ways he can address the trailer court by putting a cinder block wall along to buffer it from the addition, that way the lots could stay the same and increase the property value. He was against changing the lot sizes. Brent Tighe- 310 Rodney- The whole purpose of zoning is to protect property values of existing property owners. This is one of our main concerns. We are not classing people, but there is an impact from the size of a home. The reason the zoning ordinance was established was to protect property values. We are concerned with more children in the neighborhood and safety. If you crowd our neighborhood, safety for the fire department and safety vehicles that come into the neighborhood would be at risk. Reading out of the Declaration of Covenants, regarding size of lots. (on file) One concern is the Lift Station. We need to be careful with the water and sewer when a zone is changed. When it rains, that Lift Station has trouble and the sewer backs up once in a while. A few years ago it backed up into our basement. If you crowd more people in there you will need to look at the long term of a better system than you have. (John Millar stated that we would bring that to the councils attention) Clark Thompson- 555 Nina- His house faces south toward these homes. He asked about the zone. The back bone system is in for the power on those lots that he has talked about. If he had to have those relocated to serve those houses, he would find it would cost him a lot more than $2400 a lot. Another concern is he has a 8000 square foot lot and does not have any place to park and with one driveway. In the winter time when you have to have three cars in your driveway, it is hard. If you have a 6000 square foot lot, where are you going to park those cars? Paul Tew- 290 Rodney- I have been there since 1980 and have seen some changes and talked to the Real Estate and when a house sells for a lower amount in a subdivision it affects all houses. Our biggest concern is our investment and about the consistency of the whole subdivision. It is important that we don't change horses in the middle of the stream. If we need smaller homes to cater to people who need a smaller, less expensive home, that is fine but not in our subdivision. The other concern is about the sewer. If there is a change in that ~` . area, in the future there would be requests for more changes. This would affect the subdivision and also our lives. He was not in favor of this zone change. John Watson- He asked the relationship between restrictive covenants and zoning? When there are restrictive covenants, we don't know about them. J. D. stated that the restrictive covenants are more restrictive than the zoning ordinance. Mr Tew- The way the covenants are set up, changes can only be made by majority of the committee. The committee consists of Dean Ricks, Carma Ricks and Gary Ricks and so it could be changed pretty easy. Richard stated that there is a provision to change the membership based upon the majority owners of lots. John Millar told the group that the lots are not official lots until they are platted. Mr Tew said in the protective covenants the property description includes all lots. Jerry asked if they understood when you bought your property that the property was zoned LDR1? The answer was yes. i• Wren French- 280 Rodney- I want to go on record that I am opposed. I still don't feel I am better than the people in the trailer court. Changing the law when we all made an investment based on the law (zoning) is not fair. The Realtors that sold the property to him told him it would be good investment property because of the proximity and what was going to go on in that area in the future, so I feel it is not fair to change the law because of one person when there is many that have expressed their concern against it. It is a large investment on our part. Steve Bunnell- 330 Rodney- I have worked in the community with law enforcement, ae a police officer. The way the subdivision is layed out there is nothing by way of traffic control devices. The traffic through there is extra ordinary. We have a 15 mph zone but it is not observed. His concern was as we move more homes in than was originally planned on, the increase of more traffic by way of two vehicles per home going through that subdivision. It will also make more children on the streets. John Millar- There is a petition that has been presented that is in opposition to the zone change signed by 53 residents in the area. Rocky Hammond- He was concerned about moving in prefab homes into this area in the way it is zoned now. John Millar told him by way of the zoning ordinance the way it is worded, manufactured homes would be allowed in the subdivision, unless the restrictive covenants would not allow it. Rocky asked if we have to make a trade off on these lots, what do we have to do to keep the zone the way it is? John Millar told him a trade off is not the issue only the zone change and he felt that Dean is an honorable man and would respect their rights. Martha Tew- 290 Rodney- We have seen our subdivision grow from 3 houses to 27 houses. It is hard to want to stay in the subdivision when you are not sure if your value will drop out because of a zone change. We all take great pride in our homes and have nice yards. We want to keep ~j f .~ it neat and tidy. We want to keep pride in our neighborhood. I am against the zone change. Larry Walker- 289 Rodney- Concerning the safety in our neighborhood. I have. a two car garage, which means I have a double parking place outside my dwelling. Most of the residents have a single garage with a single parking place. Your looking at a neighborhood, with small lots at this time, with a street, curb and gutter and sidewalk. With the type of curb we have, it is hard to know where the sidewalk ends and the curb begins. If a car pretrudes out into the sidewalk, it will be dangerous for children. The post office also drives through to deliver mail and the mail boxes are in the outside third of the sidewalks with all those childrens it is a hazard, the kids are forced into the streets. If there are smaller lots with more homes, it will create more traffic and more children on the streets. The reason he is opposed is because of the safety. Susan Grant- 289 Gary- My home is next to all these empty lots. Our concern is the property value. Why are we putting a LDR2 zone in Rexburg? Jerry told her until now we have not seen a need for it, but we foresee a need in the future and have checked other cities and they are surprised that there is not a LDR2. Susan said they moved out there because it was on the out skirts of town. We are concerned about the traffic. Our concern was the change would be the entire potato field. She respected that Mr Ricks was trying to change that situation. We still have concerns. The cars park on the sidewalk because of the rolled curb. When we bought our home Dean told us there would be no homes smaller than theirs and she was concerned. I respect the people in the trailer court, but their homes are not like our homes. When we asked Mr Ricks about it, he said they were going to build a cement wall between the trailer court and our addition so the traffic won't go through. My concerns are still here, are there other options. John Millar read the petition (on file). John Watson- He reviewed Dean's plan and was not nervous about the house. He felt there was a need for an LDR2 Zone. I am not sure if you would loose property value, but the church is a drawing card and raises property values and may off set some of it. The number of lots doesn't seem to him to impact the utilities significantly.. He likes the idea of a buffer zone at the back of the trailer court. He had some concerns. When he goes over there, he drives through the trailer park to get to the church. Right now it is very confined. He did not feel good about recommending a zone change based on the promises that have been made in the restrictive covenants. If this committee were to change the zone in my neighborhood and make it less restrictive than the protective covenants, I would not be too happy. Richard- After reviewing the restrictive covenants and in comparing the description of the property with the plat, it may very well be that Mr Ricks has applied the protective covenants to the entire property regardless of whether it is platted or not. It is very clear that it applies to the entire property, in reviewing the property description. ~~ He is reluctant to step in until some of these issues are resolved. It provides for the lots for 25 years and he did not see any language providing for amendment. RE: RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL TO DENY LDR2 ZONE IN RICKS/PALMER SUBDIVISION TOPIC: (300,69,,,RICKS/PALMER SUBDIVISION,LDR2 ZONE,ZONING) i• Jim - As a Planning & Zoning Commission we have an obligation to Dean Ricks but also have an obligation to the community that surrounds the problem, and the majority of the community seems opposed to this. A motion was made by Jim Long to recommend to the City Council that based on the opposition to the proposal that we do not zone this property LDR2, and that the request be denied. Seconded by John Watson. All Aye John Watson made a clarification that Mr Ricks can build everything he wanted within the perimeters of LDR1. John Millar recommended to the property owners that a group be formed to monitor and watch over the restrictive covenants. They were made to protect your development, use them. Don't wait for this body to protect you all the time, because we can't. There should be a home owners association formed. RE: PLAT REVIEW FOR SUMMERWOOD SUBDIVISION (RANDALL SUBDIVISION} TOPIC: (300,69,,,PLATS,SUMMERWOOD SUBDIVISION,RANDALL CORPORATION, SUBDIVISIONS,STREETS,SIDEWALKS,PARKING) John Millar declared a conflict of interest and because Mary Ann Mounts had not yet arrived, he asked Richard Smith to chair the issue. Glen Halverson from Forsgren Associates presented the Randall, Summer Wood Subdivision preliminary plat, located West of 5th West, North of the Sunset Circle and K Street and South of Ricks Wade. They are proposing a 7 acre site for a stake center {showing plat) showing the streets P.U.D and residential area. Showing the utilities with larger size pipe into Ricks Wade to improve the water flow and pressure in that subdivision, sewage will be taken out and meet the sewer on 5th West, storm drainage will be collected in storm drain inlets and be carried underground to the storm drain on 5th West. We have a total of 17.3 acres total, the town houses have about three acres, the other lots are about 1/2 acre, we are using less than 25~ of this tract for housing units. It is zoned LDR1 and we have permission for a Conditional Use Permit contingent upon the approval of the plat. The type of town houses are the type we would not expect families to move in to. They would be more for retired couples. Marsha asked if there would be restriction on children in the town houses? Glen said he did not know but they will be two bedroom without a basement and would be a luxury type town house and not designed for children and the cost is prohibitive. Jim asked if he agreed with the City Engineer with street widths? Glen explained that he is asking for a wider street for parking. The stake center is required to have one space for four seats in the main chapel and they are providing 250 parking spaces and required to have 79 7~ parking spaces. He felt they have provided enough parking. He felt the streets and roads should be for traffic and not parking. It is a safety thing, with more speed. on the streets than in the parking lot. They have provided for the width of street that is called for in the ordinance. John Watson asked if the streets on the drawing are consistent with he ordinance as the ordinance exists, even in the future we are talking about changing the ordinance to provide for wider streets? Glen answered they do comply with the ordinance, and he felt they had provided enough street width. John Watson asked if there was anything in the ordinance saying that a church, school or mall is required to have a certain number of entrances and exits? John Millar told him there wasn't. The subdivision requires two. Davawn asked about sidewalks in the cul de sac? In the ordinance it does not call for a sidewalk in the cul de sac. Marv Goodliffe declared that every church he had been to people parked on the street and the parking lot is over crowed. John Watson stated that the ordinance only calls for 79 parking places and they plan to put in 250, but they could say they only wanted to put in 79 and it would be consistent with the ordinance. Glen stated that they are looking at fencing on the West. Joe Laird addressed his proposals as a city engineer. Referring to a handout with recommendations of the utilities. Joe explained a drawing with street size, discussing 50' curb to curb width of streets rather than a 40' curb to curb width. (showing a drawing from the architect on the church) He recommended a 5' to 6' sidewalk. The ordinance stated it should be a 40' curb to curb and it does state that is recommended as a minimum width and the Planning Commission can recommend something higher than that in width. Glen said if they want a 5' sidewalk we could do that. Joe asked if they felt there should be a pedestrian access into Sunset Circle from Summerwood Drive? We need to get a water line down Sunset Circle and there is a question if we need to take a storm drain into that addition. We will need to address with the developer the storm drain and water line at a later stage. Marsha stated that that is private property and should be up to them and the developer, the city should not have a responsibility to put -a sidewalk through private property. Richard stated that it would be up to the developer and property owner. We had talked about a 8" water line though the subdivision, as we do need a connection from the subdivision to the 6" line at the end of Sunset Drive. The fire department tell us they have a bad problem w th bad pressure in Sunset Circle. The same thing of extending the wate~ line up Maryanne midpoint between the two streets where there is another 6" line that we need to connect to for adequate fire fighting protection in that area. h~ Mail boxes, where are they going to be located? The post office is saying they need to be collected at one particular point. Glen stated that would not be a problem, we can put them where the post office requires. Landscaping and planting and the sign at the entrance, and who will take care of the maintenance? Storm Drainage- Whether a storm drain needs to be extended into Sunset Circle? There are french drains there and they are functioning and whether anything needs to be done or not is the question. This would be one way of providing storm drainage to Sunset Circle. The power company and telephone company both indicate that they want easements both at the backs of the lots and at the fronts of the lots and easement along the back side and an easement around the church and for every other lot they want five foot easements on either side of each lot so they have some way of determining if front lot access or back lot access is the most appropriate for the area. Glen asked if that was normal, and they would work with the power company about that. Street Lighte- For street lights in the sub division, our ordinance reads that the sub divider shall install street lights at intersections of the sub division unless waved by recommendation of the commission and approved by the council. Discussion where the lights should be. Street Monuments- The developer will put in street monuments whenever there is a change in the street right-a-way at the beginning and end of curb. Richard proposed that we look at either approving or denying the plat with certain suggestions. Roger Hoopes representing Randall Corporation- The Randall Corporation is interested in getting this to the city council tomorrow and we hope any action you take will allow us to do that. In response to Joe's comments. This is the last undeveloped piece of property in that area and it is different than if we had a development out in the middle of no where. We are connecting into previously developed property. It doesn't make sense to have 50' right-a-ways with 40' streets back to back all around it and then put a street right in the middle that is 10 feet wider, the same with the sidewalks and everything else. All the access to this development has already been defined by the other developers .around it. He did not think it made sense to supersede the accesses that are already there. The access to Sunset Circle, with this plat the town houses have not been changed and the council voted they would accept the plat without an access to Sunset Circle. We have submitted a plat without access to Sunset Circle in hopes that they would accept it. The plat does not show any access to Sunset Circle and we did not plan on sewer and water tie ins to Sunset Circle • because we have been down that road before. The other areas that Mr Laird brought up with regard to the engineering Glen will comment. The area of entrance from 2nd North will be grassed in and made attractive and we have discussed the maintenance, with the town houses and will have a home owners association set up to maintain that and they will maintain the entrance landscaping. Jan Wright- 237 Maryanne- We have been watching the progress of this subdivision silently from the Ricks Wade Addition. We felt like with all the bickering about the accesses, we thought there might be a chance that we might not get the new church in that area. Our whole neighborhood is excited about getting a church there. She submitted a petition with 67 names that are in agreement of having the church there. Is there a possibility of a gate (for church) in the West corner because we have a lot of young couples that like to walk to church and a 5' wide sidewalk would be great. Will there be a ball park or a grass area? Alan Palmer- representing the L. D. S. Church- He had some serious concerns concerning what the city engineer is recommending as of additional cost to the church with size of the sidewalks that we have seen very seldom. It has been the interest of the church to provide adequate on site parking and to use on street parking to a minimum. The church has done extensive traffic surveys on the regular Sunday meetings and this building utilized for four wards would not normally fill that parking lot. There are peak periods when wards overlap and the total estimated parking is about 234 cars. With three wards in the building it peaks at 174. Right now it is proposed for two wards in that building. The church has adequate property to the south of what is proposed to add parking lots should parking become an issue. The access shown to the west, the church would prefer not to put that in as shown on the preliminary plan. We would put it to the south and not to the west so that there was not a tendency to short cut the highway and to cut across the church parking lot. Davawn asked if Mr Palmer would agree that there would be a lot of foot traffic from the surrounding subdivisions? Mr Palmer said he would anticipate zero foot traffic from Sunset Circle and foot traffic from about 2/3 of K Street and probably 2/3 from Summer Wood addition. The foot traffic from the Ricks Wade Addition would be anticipated. The church has recommended a 40 foot fence around ball fields in the past, but we would normally put a 6 foot fence around that ball field to prevent people from parking on the street and accessing the ball field and presenting a dangerous situation for children running in between cars. There is a concern about the gate in the back corner, because that is an invitation to park on that street, and that is hard to limit that without posting and enforcing. His experience on a 4' sidewalk is you can walk two a breast with a stroller in front of you. The fence will be back 15' from the right-a-way and the fence is not a done deal. John Watson asked what the time frame is in terms of the rest of the development? (I don't have a conflict of interest) Glen said the Randalls want to move on it as soon as they can, but would assume it will be sometime next summer. Alan Palmer said the church agreement is to pay half the costs of all the streets adjoining church property plus h3 the connection to 5th West. The streets will all be put in one i project. John Watson suggested that we will have the plan for the church to approve. He also asked if we as a board could say we recognize that the size of the streets meet the ordinance, but we want them wider? Richard stated that it was safe doing that. We need to look at the safety. John Millar- The ordinance 487 says minimum allowed. He agreed with Joe that in a busy traffic area that 40' is pretty narrow, but 50' is a little wide, speaking as a citizen. 2nd East is 45'. George Quarez- 558 Angela- I would like to know that in due respect to disagreements that have been discussed previously because of access. It would be a blessing for me and my family to have a church in my neighborhood. Alan Palmer wanted to go on record that the church recommends the plat as presented. Richard stated that there had been a number of issues raised by Mr Laird and others in the audience this evening, I would ask for a motion suggesting that we address and discuss each one of these prior to plat approval or accept the plat as presented. Paul Kotter- 110 K Street- Ask that as safety issue that a dip at the end of K Street be shown to slow the traffic down. Leon Bleggie discussed accesses. 1, 8, 5 don't need to be discussed. Street widths- Richard suggested that it appears that we want to encourage the traffic to use the 5th West entrance and discourage the access to K Street and Ricks Wade. A motion was made by Jim Long that in the "L" piece, the street be 50' curb to curb to the intersection of K Street and Summer Wood Drive; and K Street from Summer Wood Drive South be 40 curb to curb; and Summer Wood Drive and Maryanne Drive be 45' curb to curb. with 5' sidewalks next to the church property and four foot on the opposite side. Seconded by John Watson. Those voting aye: Marsha Bjornn, John Watson, Jim Long. Those. voting nay: Davawn Beattie, Jerry Jeppesen, Mary Anne Mounts. John Millar: abstained. Vote is a tie vote. As Chairman of the issue Richard had to break the tie, he voted nay. Alan Palmer- He felt the church would be willing to work with the city to increase the size of their entrances and exits onto the "L" shaped piece and to minimize the size down south, so people would be encouraged to enter and exit through the other side though it did not • prohibit those coming through from the Ricks Wade Addition. ~~ John Millar- It might be prudent where the church is such a significant part of this that the sidewalk issue of the church be separated from the subdivision and that be part of the church site plan approval. A motion was made by Jerry Jeppesen that we continue the street 50' down to the intersection of Summerwood and K Street, that the rest of the streets be allowed to continue at 40' curb to curb. Seconded by Davawn Beattie. (discussion of having another body look at it or changing the plat) John Watson stated that this plat has been done by professionals. Forsgren is in the business of plats and street developments. We can enhance the safety issues. and concerns of the neighborhood by making suggestions of the street width but could say we deny it and they could hire another engineer with a different solution. He did not feel that is what we should be doing as a Zoning Commission. We need to recognize the fact that city engineer has made some recommendations to improve upon and he has reviewed it with the utilities and department heads. In his opinion it has been studied significantly. He does have a problem that we have property in the city that is sold but is unplatted. Richard called for a vote on the motion for the street widths. All Aye expect Jim Long and Mary Ann Mounts voting nay. Next is major accesses- There are three accesses. We are not in the business of redrawing this plat even if we like something better. we can address the problems and safety issues. If we think we need more access we need to address it. Joe Laird stated that a fourth access is not needed. A motion was made by Marsha Bjornn that we recommend that these three accesses be approved on the proposed plat. seconded by Jerry Jeppesen. All voting aye except Mary Ann voting nay. Pedestrian Way in conjunction with a water line and drain- John Watson stated what we are saying is this would be an opportune time to tie into the water line and an opportunity for a pedestrian lane to reduce traffic. Roger Hoopes stated that the developer does not think it needs to be there and they don't want to put it there and they don't want to have a sidewalk across one of their lots because they don't want to shorten one of their lots. It has been platted the way it is without a sidewalk through there. You are asking for a sidewalk that dead ends into a mans yard without a sidewalk for it to connect with. John Millar- You are seeking to require an access that we have never done before. Who put it in and pays for it and maintains it, how many people would you access and is it really needed? A motion was made by John Watson to recommend that they consider a pedestrian way subject to the developer's design and subject to the r engineers approval between Sunset Circle and Summer Wood Drive be included in the plat. Seconded by Jerry Jeppesen. All voting aye, except Davawn Beattie and Marsha Bjornn voting nay. Motion carried. They will present the maintenance with their final lan. We are not going to wave any street light requirements. Sidewalks - A motion was made by Mary Ann Mounts that they be required to have a strip of grass at least three feet three feet from the road and then a sidewalk. Seconded by Jim Long. Those voting aye: Mary Anne Mounts and Jim Long. All others voting nay. Motion failed. Discussion on following the ordinances and imposing something not in the ordinance. A motion was made by Jerry Jeppesen to accept the plat subject to the conditions imposed. seconded by John Watson. All Aye Jerry reported that Madison County asked for time to look at the modifications of the map and report in two weeks. Rose to mail out definitions of zones to members of this board. Meeting adjourned. ~~