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Home My WebLink AboutCONDITIONAL USE PERMIT - 08-00522 - Whoolery - 165 S 1st E - CUP for Dormitory in MUConditional Use Permit PERMANENT DOC UMi City of Rexburg OriginatiQAP f�? P �] O Phone: 208.359.3020 (;OmnlAiMrMJW d l - Zdk)Q www.rexburg.org fax: 208.359.3022 DO R r-3 LOCAL t1CJ STORAGE o4 �s'csu� c; 4 r� v o CITY OF M B 4J R Americas Family Comnwnity ❑ STATE ARCHIVES Fee(s) Paid: Yes /No -City of Rexburg Records Management- CUP: $250.00 Publication: $200.00 Applicant Name: W h 4 Address: Pe rris Lam, City: te: MJ Zip:83ft Phone: Owner (Complete if owner not applicant) Name: M h I S � f - &M Address: b City: � n kr-A �v0 State: ��Zip: 7-562- P one: S W 2? Property Covered by Permit: Address: 5 C W% . 1 + t,,*, r Zone: M b Legal Description (Lot, Block, Addition, Division Number) Lo+ D. 81cck- )_�J c&rker- adcbii eve *Please attach a vicinity map of Me property to this application. Nature of Request (B riefly explain the proposed use) Will this have an impact on schools: I JA Requirements for Granting Conditional Use Permit The following information will assist the Commission and /or City Council to determine if your proposal will meet the requirements under the zoning ordinance. 1. What is the estimated water usage per month? Are the 5xisting mains adequate to provide fire protection? 2. What is the estimated be necessarv? 4. If commercial, industrial, or a home c -�6wit_ b VVA.G!-1_A 1 what will be the hours of operation? 5. Will storm water drainage be retained on site? Is an existing storm drain available? Is it at capacity? If so, will 6. If proposed use is residential, describe number and type of dwelling units. Will this be student housing: multi- fam y for young families, singles and couples, or elderly? E .., 7. What provision has been made for fire protection? Where is the nearest fire hydrant? Is any point of the building further than 150 feet from access sufficient in width for fire fighting equipment? 8. How much parking is being provided on -site? Do the aisle widths and access points comply with the ordinance requirements? Has landscaping been provided in accordance with the ordinance? `a, Lee 'at b y Gt' ,Pti S" 1 1"r - fb 9. Wher ill solid waste enerated be stored? s access adequate for the Ci collection,? V lzr 10. What is the type of noise that will be enerated by e use? What are the hours of noise generation? , 24 1 S=e 2 3. What is the estimated daily traffic to be generated? Will the traffic be primarily private vehicles or commercial trucks? F r i vAt e_ t to _H : cw .,C rie� c ;�.. -1: P,jri . _ _ '/-- 0 0 11. What type of equipment will be used in the conduct of the business? 12. What are the surrounding land uses? Has buffering been provided as required by the ordinance? S a-+5X-#JC 13. Are any air quality permits required? Is dirt or other dust creating materials moved by open trucks or box cars? 0 14. Will the parking lots or other outdoor areas have lighting? 15. Are passenger loading zones for such uses as daycare centers and schools provided? How is busing routed? For commercial uses, where are the loading docks? Is there sufficient space for truck parking? Af I A-- 16. If a comm ercial, multifa or public assembl use, where is the nearest collector street? Arterial street? 16 i4L Z rcQ J'ac'k 17. What, if any, signage is anticipated in connection with the usage? The Commission or Council may address othpoints than those discus" sed aboldbut a narrative addressing at least those applicable points will assist in processing your application. A PLOT PLAN MUST BE ATTACHED IN ORDER TO PROCESS THIS APPLICATION. Included on the plot plan setbacks, parking, etc. Formal notice will be sent to applicant after approval of a Conditional Use Permit. Notice will state the conditions of the permit. If conditions are violated or not met there will be 90 day period to cure the problem. Failure to comply with the terms may result in revocation of the Conditional Use Permit. . 1�4� ka�4� - jam-ls- Signature of Applicant Date 0 � 0 Conditional Use Permit Procedures The City of Rexburg Zoning Ordinance designates certain land uses in each Zoning District which are allowed. These are listed in the Zoning Ordinance for each zone. The Planning & Zoning Department should be consulted if you have questions about whether your proposal will need a Conditional Use Permit. If a C.U.P. is needed, you will need to get an application from the Planning & Zoning Department and fill it out for a C.U.P. You will then need to return the application and request to be placed on the Planning & Zoning Commission agenda at least 18 days prior to the meeting. Application and public hearing fees are required to be paid up front. Prior to granting a conditional use, at least one Public Hearing shall be held to give persons an opportunity to be heard. The Planning & Zoning Meetings are held on the 1" and 3` Thursday of every month at 7:00 pm. The Secretary of Planning & Zoning will put the notice for the hearing in the paper 15 days prior to each hearing, mail a copy to all the property owners within 300 feet and post a notice on the property. After the Planning & Zoning Commission holds their hearing they will make a recommendation to the City Council. The City Council will take the Planning & Zoning Commission recommendation into consideration. If a hearing is required before the City Council they will then take into consideration oral and written testimony as well as the recommendation from the Planning & Zoning Commission. A decision will be made by the City Council within the time frame allowed by Section 67 -6511, Idaho Code. El . icy 1\\ :,}I;T., �tty if1�ST�r'xj "�'•i +`ti:r' ".{e {:: �r:'�•�:'..k Y . .. .. .. ... .� .. 7 kr A"011114 UWD 1Rlr co. �,1 �!�;!'�. . o. Iar raf •' � ',<. F , �� R IDAMO 614(0 . WARRANTY DEED ` THIS INDENTURE, made this day of 88, by KATHLEEN PLOWMAN, NOT ' INDIVIDUALLY BUT AS TRUSTEE OF THE W•HORI;ANu SIMMONS AND VIRGINIA M, SIMMONS REVOCABLE TRUST, the 'party esf the first part, and CHRISTOPHER MANN and BARBARA MANN, husband and wife, whose mailing address,is 165 South 100 East, Rexburg, county e - Ey of Madison, State of Idaho, the party of the second part. WITNESSETH, that the party of the first part, for and in ne United of the States Ofmtmerica, DandAOTHERIGOOD, ANDwVALUABLEy CONSIDERATION, to the party of the first part in hand paid by the party of the second Part, the receipt whereof is hereby acknowledged, has granted, bargained, sold, and by these Presents does grant, bargain, sell, convey and confirm unto the second p the party of art, and to the Part's he party of the second heirs ;�d assigns, forevar, all of the following described real estate situated in the County of Madison, State o: Idaho, to - wit: Commencing / at a point 68 feet East of the Southwest corner of Lot 2., in Block 1 of the Parker Addition to the City Of Rexburg, Madison County, Idaho, as per the recorded plat thereof, and running thence East 47,5 EeeL; thence North 82,5 feet; thence West 115.5 feet; thence South 11 feet; thence East 68 feet; thence South 71.5 feet to the point of beginning. " SUBJECT to all existing easements or claims of easements, Patent reservations, rights of way, protective covenants, zoning ordinances, and applicable building codes, laws regulations, and encroachments, overlaps, boundary line disputes and other matters which would be disclosed by an accurate survey or inspection of the premises. TOGETHER with all and singular the tenements, hereditaments and appurtenances thereunto belonging or in any-,I-S4 appertaining, and the reversions re , remainder and "'ainders, rents, issues and profits thereof; " right, and all estate, tttle and interest in and to the laur property, as well in vs in equity, of the party of the first part. Te HAVE AND I'D HOLD, all and singular the above mentioned and described premises together with the appurtenances unto the Party of the Saco. ^,:1 part, and to the party of the second part's .. . Up 'd SZZI 'ON SDIAH3S 3iVeoflo) OHtlOI NAVI 1001 U '03j I i SECOND SOUTH 4 t .-slid 30 M"". 9- , 7 _ 495 66 UA) v I. T_AJo IL %�Ao, (D4 T-7 5 0 f 14 �O 4 , )22 -3,5 RI T-12 . T-10 T_ 99 v T-7� 0107 D6?_ 0 oiq OAA- A(A 4j" )f-j -,� :I- W n �` , L1-, .b2' v Ilk W W 4 0 • A-) zz>,-- R v y 0 <= Z,9 --> Y C I'rY O F REXBURG —. - -Oz. — Americ6 Family Community CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT City of Rexburg Department of Community Development 19 E. Main St. / Rexburg, ID. 83440 Phone (208) 359 -3020 / Fax (208) 359 -3024 Project Information Permit # 0800522 Permit Type Conditional Use Permit Project Name Rachel Whoolery - CUP Dormitory Site Address 165 S IST E Parcel # Housing RPROOOP0014990 Project Description Names Associated with this Project Type Name Contact Phone # License # Exp Date Fee Information Project Valuation Public Hearing Notice Fee .200.00 Conditional Use Permit 250.00 Total Fees Paid $450.00 — — - - - - -- - * ** SEE ATTACHED CONDITIONS * ** i Print Name �� L a�Seh Date Issued: 04 /10/2009 Signature A r 5 --~ Date 0 — Issued By: ELAINEM r C , r ,, o F CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT -- - F -.� RE XBURG City of Rexburg Americas Fami4,Community De partment of Community Development 19 E. Main St. / Rexburg, ID. 83440 Phone (208) 359 -3020 / Fax (208) 359 -3024 Project Information Permit Type Conditional Use Permit Site Address 165 S 1ST E Project Description Permit # 0800522 Project Name Rachel Whoolery - CUP Dormitory Parcel # Housing RPROOOP0014990 Conditions I 1. No issuance of a Conditional Use Permit can occur until all site plan issues are resolved and approved through administrative review which shall take place at the time the applicant applies for a change of use with the Community Development Department. 2. All parking lot requirements shall be depicted on the revised site plan, including proper aisle widths, grades, parking stall sizes, number of spaces, etc. 3. Should City policies and/or ordinances change regarding parking standards, these standards will apply to the subject property Print Name S iKwh LrSeh Signature w'^ 0- Date Y' 10 -oct Date Issued: 04/10/2009 Issued By: ELAINEM OE 4pYBC•gC 0 �2 C I T Y OF , REXBURG — - -C)W-- Americd Famib� Community CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT City of Rexburg Department of Community Development 19 E. Main St. / Rexburg, ID. 83440 Phone (208) 3 59 -3020 / Fax (208) 359 -3024 Project Information Permit Type Conditional Use Permit Site Address 165 S 1ST E Project Description RPR000P0014990 Conditions 4. Trash dumpsters /receptacles shall be located within the interior (behind front building line, but minimum is required setbacks) of the lot and shall be enclosed with materials that are consistent with those materials used in the building that they are adjacent to, e.g. brick, wood, etc. 5. Lighting shall be reviewed. All lighting shall be applicable lighting standards, including full cut -off fixtures and lowe wattage light sources, i.e. 60 -75 watt. Violating lights on site shall be replaced prior to issuance of a certificate of occupancy. 6. A site plan reflecting all conditions of approval and incorporating all City standards, e.g. landscaping, parking, etc. shall be submitted and approved by the City prior to the issuance of a building permit. 7. A landscape plan shall be submitted when an application is submitted for a change of use, or building permit. Landscaping shall be required to be implemented prior to the issuance of a full certificate of occupancy. The site shall include 30% landscaping (per ordinance 926), this percentage shall be shown on the approvable landscape plan. 8. Proposed project entrances shall be enhanced through landscaping. This requirement shall include all mechanical equipment installed as part of the development to be adequately screened from the ROW and from adjacent property. 9. Lighting shall be low (under 15 -feet in height) and not create glare, and as a minimum shall adhere to the City's lighting ordinance. Any proposed lighting would need to be submitted to the City for review and approval subject to the submittal and approval criteria found in the development code. 10. All exterior sidewalks adjacent to the site (including any property encumbered by the proposal, as these properties will then become part of the proposed parking solution.) must be installed or repaired (to City standards) prior to the occupancy of the proposed structure Print Name SS Wfl Lakse n Signature S_( 11 A w w%- _ ti r Date Y-/0- Date Issued: 04/10/2009 Issued By: ELAINEM Permit # 0800522 Project Name Rachel Whoolery - CUP Dormitory Parcel # Housing W.J 4xxg �'kc CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REXBURG City of Rexburg lmcricrisFmniiyCornmenrity Department. of Community Development 19 E. Main St. / Rexburg, ID. 83440 Phone (208) 359 -3020 / Fax (208) 359 -3024 Project Information Permit # 0800522 Permit Type Conditional Use Permit Project Name Rachel Whoolery - CUP Dormitory Site Address 165 S 1ST E Parcel # Housing RPROOOP0014990 Project Description Conditions 11. All sidewalks both exterior and interior should be interconnected and should connect to the main entrances of the unit 12. To encourage alternative travel options, which are likely to decrease vehicular trip generation, bicycle parking shall be provided, both long term (several hour stay, weather protected) and short term (visitors - two hours or less). As a minimum, for dormitory housing, long -term parking spaces (sheltered) shall be provided at a ratio of l space per 3 tenants and short-term parking at a ratio of 1 space per 2 tenants. For this development this would require 4 long- term spaces and 6 short-term spaces. 13. Sheltered parking, like the screening of trash dumpsters shall be constructed of high quality building materials that are consistent with the main building. Sheltered parking shall not be located within the required front yard. A hard surface.path shall be provided from the City `` fight -of -way to sheltered parking and then to the main entrance of main structure. 14. A pplicant shall p rovid e all required par spaces o the subject pro or secur re quired number of spaces through a parking agreement with adjacent property within a distance allowed by ordinance, if that property has excess parking beyond requirement. This can be accomplished through a Restrictive Lot Line Covenant (RLLC), or a perpetual parking easement This conditional use permit for dormitory housing limits the number of residents to 12(twelve). All staff review comments are included in the conditions for this Conditional Use Permit. Print Name 5A"tx l � IrSe h Date Issued: 04/10/2009 Signature u 0-A w r �^`' Date 4 /— /0 01 Issued By: ELAINEM #08 00522 Rachel Whoolery Conditional Use Permit extension: From Rexburg Planning and Zoning meeting of April 2, 2009 "Josh Garner motioned to extend the Rachel Whoolery (Saggara Properties) Conditional Use Permit #08 00522, to a deadline of June 1, 2010, with the condition that the applicant will either complete the parking lot, or the applicant will make application to take advantage of the PEZ zone opportunity, by that date. Dan Hanna seconded the motion. None opposed (unanimous for the record, per Chairman Dyer). Motion carried." Planning & Zoning Minutes October 1, 2009 35 North Is' East Phone: 208.359.3020 Rexburg, ID 83440 www.rexburg.org Fax: 208.359.3022 El cITY 0 F. REX BU RG 0 4 America's Fumiiy Community Commissioners Attending Winston Dyer — Chairman Ted Hill Nephi Allen Thaine Robinson Gil Shirley Mary Ann Mounts Chairman Dyer opened the meeting at 7:04 pm. City Staff and Others Val Christensen — Community Development Director Steve Christenson — IT Director Stephen Zollinger — City Attorney Elaine McFerrin — P &Z Coordinator Roll Call of Planning and Zoning Commissioners: Mary Ann Mounts, Gil Shirley, Winston Dyer, Thaine Robinson, Ted Hill, Nephi Allen Dan Hanna and Richie Webb were excused. Minutes: 1. Planning and Zoning meeting -- September 17, 2009 Thaine Robinson motioned to approve the Planning & Zoning minutes of September 17, 2009. Nephi Allen seconded the motion. None opposed. Motion carried. Public Hearings• Chairman Dyer briefly explained the public hearing process. 7:05 pm — Conditional Use Permit — Nauvoo House — 175 W. 5` S. Christopher Carr ,1434 E. 820 N., Orem, UT. He is part owner of the Nauvoo House project, which they purchased in March of 2009. The complex currently has 63 units of single student housing. They wish to add 45 more units. He pointed out the existing buildings and the planned new building locations on the projected map. They want to add 5 buildings, including a manager's residence with student storage space and maintenance space. There would then be space for approximately 250 more students. They are looking to build immediately. They want to keep the look and feel of the current Nauvoo House. It is an asset to the community. Feedback from students is very positive. Nauvoo House is a newer complex that is well maintained and was featured in the housing magazine. Rather than having one long building, they are breaking the buildings up into smaller units. The buildings will be connected with shared flights of stairs and a breezeway. Each building would be 120 feet long, with a different roof line level. The elevations were shown on the screen. Chairman Dyer noted the developers are taking advantage of the PEZ Zone in reduction of parking spaces. Are they intending to provide some spaces in the universal parking area that the University is planning? Chris Carr said they are not intending to provide parking spaces at this time in the universal parking area that the University is planning. Chairman Dyer said in return for the reduction in parking offered in the PEZ Zone, there are some requirements for the developer in terms of making the project more pedestrian friendly, including pathways and connectivity, bicycle parking, etc. Christopher Carr said they will provide 67 or 68 percent parking, so they are not reducing parking spaces a lot. They will comply with the PEZ ordinance. Additional bike parking is not planned at this point. They currently have 130 covered, lighted bicycle stalls. It is felt this amount is more than enough — they are at 200 percent. The sidewalk follows the entire length of the property and is and will be well maintained by the complex. Thaine Robinson asked how many parking stalls are planned Mr. Carr said they will have approximately 450 spaces by the end of the project. Thaine Robinson asked what was going down the center of the parking lot shown on the site plan layout. Mr. Carr said the center is a median for dumpsters that they will enclose, a maintenance facility, and snow storage areas. It will be pedestrian friendly. Potentially they would like to add volleyball or basketball courts. Thaine Robinson said the PEZ Zone offers some leniency to the developer, but he does not see on this site plan any green scapes or other amenities for the students such as a basketball court. All that is shown is a lot of parking spaces. He asked about snow storage and removal; the intended areas were pointed out on the projected map by the applicant. Mr. Carr said there will also be areas for a basketball or volleyball court that could also store snow. They may haul snow out or around back on the street side. Mary Ann Mounts said her car was booted at Nauvoo House. She asked how many visitor parking spaces are planned and if they would be designated as visitor parking Christopher Carr said the requirement is 10 per cent, which they will provide. The visitor parking spaces will be designated. Mary Ann Mounts said she is concerned that there will be a problem with booting of cars in the PEZ Zone when parking only a few minutes, as students pick up other students. She would like to see more visitor parking as part of the PEZ Zone ordinance. Mr. Carr said booting solves a problem and gets the message across. 2 The elevations of the buildings were again shown on the overhead screen. Mr. Carr said there are 3 units per building — one on the lower elevation and two on the higher elevation, with a breezeway/ staircase connecting the buildings. Mary Ann Mounts wondered about breezeways in this climate. Christopher Carr said the breezeways could be enclosed in the future; they want to comply with the rules. Chairman Dyer asked if there was any information Val Christensen could give the Commission to help them understand the proposal. Val Christensen feels the proposal is straightforward; he stated he would address concerns when he presents his staff report after public input. Mary Ann Mounts commented on this proposal not matching the existing buildings on the other side of the property; this could be addressed during design review. Chairman Dyer said the other side was built prior to design standards being in place; now there is the requirement to break up a long wall. Chairman Dyer opened the public input portion of the hearing. In Favor None Neutral: None Opposed None Written Input: Letter from Brigham Young University Idaho (Philip Packer — in favor of the proposal, read by Chairman Dyer. Chairman Dyer closed the public input portion of the hearing He clarified the reason for this Conditional Use Permit - the existing complex is over 24 units and the proposed project would add 45 more units. According to the City's Development Code 926, any project over 24 units in the High Density Residential zone requires the proposal to come before the Commission to request a Conditional Use Permit. He asked Val Christensen for his staff evaluation. Val Christensen stated in a meeting between the City and BYU -I representatives, the University requested that the Nauvoo House property owner and the property owner to the south of this project create a pedestrian path (addressed in proposed condition #1 in the Community Development staff report). The area was pointed out on the projected map. In the Pedestrian Emphasis Zone ordinance, the working together of adjacent property owners is encouraged to allow pedestrian access easements. The two property owners could possibly each do 5 -feet of a 10 -foot wide pathway. This issue is the main one that the City would like conditioned. Each project /property in the PEZ Zone is looked at independently. Snow storage /removal is an issue and could be conditioned. Making sure visitor parking stalls are marked is important, as brought up earlier by Commissioner Mounts Nephi Allen asked the exact parking required in this instance. Val Christensen said it is a floating number. The Commission could determine the reduction, as this proposal is in the PEZ zone. It may depend on the amenities the developer is going to do. Chairman Dyer said the minim for parking is 10 per cent of the number of units for visitor parking (68 to 70 visitor parking spaces). That is the bare minimum. There could be no parking at all for the new units. Nephi Allen asked how many parking spots are shown on the projected site plan. Mr. Carr said 450 parking spots were the total. Chairman Dyer asked Val Christensen to address Design Standards. Val Christensen said the project would have to come before the Design Review Committee prior to the issuance of the building permit. One item would be if the stairway is set back enough visually to give the appearance of a separate building, visually breaking up a long wall. Discussion continued. Chairman Dyer said the question before the Commission tonight is, shall a conditional use permit be issued for this proposal, and if so, what conditions should be attached to it? Gil Shirley said his only concern is snow removal; he does not think there is enough room in the snow storage areas indicated and feels some snow may need to be hauled away. He thought that this issue should be addressed in a condition. Thaine Robinson thought that there should be a condition that the plans show where a play court is going to be located. The parking lot on the projected site plan looks like a bone yard. He also felt there should be a condition that the visitor spaces be marked. Chairman Dyer said they are looking to densify in this PEZ zone area close to campus; this project fits well. The only concerns he has are those that have been expressed about functionality and operation. Mary Ann Mounts feels this proposal is a good project, although she pictured the new addition matching what already exists. She has always liked how Nauvoo House looks; it is well built and kept up nicely. She feels that as long as requirements and conditions are met, it is great to finish the area. Thaine Robinson motioned to recommend approval to City Council of a Conditional Use Permit for Nauvoo House, at 175 West 5`" South, to include the eleven (11) proposed conditions of approval in the staff report plus 3 additional conditions - #12: The site plan shall show the location of the play court(s) and other amenities; #13: Visitor parking stalls shall be marked; and #14: A snow removal plan shall be reviewed and approved by the City; — a total of fourteen (14) proposed conditions of approval. Gil Shirley seconded the motion None opposed. Motion carried. M Chairman Dyer suggested that, due to the expense of designing a building of this size, a design review meeting should be scheduled in the near future. Nauvoo House Proposed Conditions of Approval 1. Work with adjoining property owner to the south to create a pedestrian pathway on the south boundary of this project. Dedicate 50% of the land required for this path, provide 50% of construction cost and provide an easement for its use. The Community Development Director shall approve the path as part of the Site Plan Review. 2. Stairway construction between buildings shall be designed in a manner to clearly emphasis the breakup of length of the buildings. The Design Review Committee shall meet prior to the issuance of building permit to review and approve the design. 3. Trash dumpsters /receptacles shall be located within the interior (behind front building line, but minimum is required setbacks) of the lot and shall be enclosed. 4. A site plan reflecting all conditions of approval and incorporating all City standards, e.g. landscaping, parking, snow storage, etc. shall be submitted and approved by the City prior to the issuance of a building permit. 5. Lighting shall be low (under 15 -feet in height) and not create glare, and as a minimum shall adhere to the City's lighting ordinance. 6. To encourage alternative travel options, i.e. bicycling, bike racks and hard surface must be provided. Location of racks needs to be shown on revised site plan. This requirement is identified in the PEZ Ordinance. 7. Sidewalk and pathway maintenance to be performed as per the PEZ Ordinance. 8. Parking Contracts to be approved by the City Attorney. 9. Requirements of the PEZ Zone Ordinance to be applied to this project. 10. Buildings to meet design standards. 11. Storm drainage and other Engineering considerations to be reviewed and approved by the City Engineer. 12. The site plan shall show the location of the play court(s) and other amenities. 13. Visitor parking stalls shall be marked. 14. A snow removal plan shall be reviewed and approved by the City. 7:25 pm — Conditional Use Permit — Kartchner Student Housing — 6th South and 4th West Troy Kartchner, Kartchner Homes, 601 West 1700 South, Logan, Utah. He stated that the Commissioners were shown the conceptual plan of this proposal at their last meeting. They have named the project Southgate and Northgate. A map of the projected area was shown on the overhead screen. He pointed out where they will put in 4th West. They hope to work with neighboring property owners to put in 6` South, the entire road. He pointed out where they wanted to connect roads safely to the University. They want to make sure that their development agreement includes that they are eventually able to recoup 100 per cent of those costs. 5 They requested a Vacation of 31 -feet of the 6` South right -of -way, from 4` West to 3rd West; in return they will landscape and put in a 12- foot wide pedestrian bike path. Troy Kartchner stated they are very concerned about the parking they provide and have worked hard to get their numbers up. There will be 81 and 85 percent parking for the north and the south parcels of the project. They are farther away from campus than some of the other single student complexes. Mr. Kartchner also pointed out areas planned for snow storage. They feel there is room for adequate snow storage that meets the requirements. They may need to add an access in order to get to some of the snow storage. There will be 288 living spaces for men and 324 living spaces for women. There will be a clubhouse for each. There will be 12- plexes and 4- plexes. Every bedroom has its own bathroom. The exterior elevations were shown on the over head screen. Mr. Kartchner stated they are working hard to meet the City's design standards on all elevations. The clubhouse was also shown. Each will be central to the complexes. They will be townhome style and two - story, with more green space for the tenants and more walkable areas. They want to have a place where people want to come for the long term. Storage in the winter for bikes will be inside in the basement of the clubhouses. The bikes will not have to be in apartments or out in the weather. There is also a large porch for bikes in front of the units. There will be exterior bike parking also to accommodate summer bike use. Proposed condition #1 in the staff report addresses not creating a traffic access through the parking lot that connects 7` South and 6th South. The developers want good access in and out of the project. They may use speed bumps and signs to discourage through traffic. Chairman Dyer asked if they had thought of making the 7` South access fire vehicle accessible only, possibly with a break -away gate. Troy Kartchner said that may be a possibility. They will do a traffic study (stated in conditions) per the request of City Engineer John Millar. Thaine Robinson said the snow storage areas shown indicated that the south lot, which is the smaller lot, will have five locations for snow storage. The north lot, which will have more beds, shows only one snow storage area. Troy Kartchner clarified that they will push the snow from the north to the south, or they will haul it away. Chairman Dyer asked if the 4th West access had been discussed with the City Engineer. It had not. Thaine Robinson suggested that possibly the 4th West access could be right turn only into the complex, with the other access being an output. The 7` South access could also be right turn only. Discussion continued. Chairman Dyer asked if the pedestrian pathways shown on the site plan are 5 -foot wide sidewalks. Troy Kartchner said they are that width. Col Chairman Dyer said the pathways may need to be wider because of the amount of people that will be using them. Troy Kartchner said they are willing do so, but he would like others on board to do this too - for it to be carried out as bike and pedestrian friendly throughout the PEZ Zone. He does not mind being a pioneer, but he would like a plan that would generate where paths will be and where they should go, with everyone participating. He suggested if the City would like 6 -foot wide sidewalks, they should adopt that and then require it. Chairman Dyer asked Troy Kartchner if the Commission made it a condition of approval that he would build substantially in conformance with the building elevations and plans shown at tonight's meeting, if that would be agreeable. Troy Kartchner said he would not have a problem with that. He would not show something that they were not going to build. Chairman Dyer said that at the last P &Z meeting, he had questions on the staggering of the buildings, and it appears his concerns were answered in the elevations shown tonight, because they show a lot of relief in texture and change in roof lines, etc. Chairman Dyer asked Val Christensen for any input he had to help the Commissioners understand the proposal. Val Christensen stated that the Commissioners needed to be aware of the storm drainage ditch that runs through part of the property. They also should look at the bigger picture of the PEZ Zone and where this property is located. Ted Hill asked where the drainage ditch ended. Val Christensen pointed out the ditch; it goes across 7` South and goes into the canal. The City owns the drainage ditch. Thaine Robinson asked if there was a safety issue with the fault line running on the property that they needed to be concerned with. Val Christensen said the City has not expressed so in the past. Chairman Dyer asked what the plans are for the ditch. Troy Kartchner said they will pipe it. They have discussed this issue with John Millar. Chairman Dyer opened the public input portion. In Favor: None Neutral None Opposed None Written Input: None 7 Chairman Dyer declared the public input portion of the hearing closed and asked Val Christensen for his staff evaluation and recommendations. Val Christensen stated the single biggest issue is the through traffic problem within the development— staff would recommend a serpentine rather than straight shot parking lot. Flipping the center could be looked at. He stated that staff had no problem with the 7 h South access, which was earlier suggested as fire only. There are a lot of possibilities. Snow storage concerns will be addressed at the time of the building review. The project may need additional snow storage area. Mr. Christensen said that if the Commission puts the shown elevations as a condition, he would suggest that it be considered as the design review being complete, so there would not have to be an additional meeting for the project. In addition, they are looking for wider sidewalks as a route to the college is defined. However, is a wider sidewalk for pedestrian access to be looked at on this level? Chairman Dyer said a conditional use permit is required in this zone (High Density Residential 2) due to the fact that there will be over 24 units in this complex. The question before them is should they approve this CUP, and if so with what conditions. He noted the Commission had some issues from the discussion they may want to address — the storm drain ditch, marking visitor parking, a snow plan, and building plans substantially in conformance with what was presented tonight. The Commissioners discussed the proposal. Mary Ann Mounts stated that speed bumps may not solve the avoidance of a through traffic access within the project. Thaine Robinson complimented Troy Kartchner on the project, saying it was very refreshing to see good design standards on the building drawings presented that are up front and in place, and that adhere to the design standards. Other Commissioners agreed. Sidewalk width was discussed. Thaine Robinson motioned to recommend approval to City Council of a Conditional Use Permit for Kartchner Student Housing, at 6th South and 4 West, to include the fourteen (14) proposed conditions of approval in the staff report , plus 5 additional conditions - #15: Visitor parking stalls shall be marked; #16: A storm drainage ditch plan shall be approved by City staff; #17: A snow removal plan shall be approved by City staff ; #18: The building elevations shall be substantially in conformance with those plans presented at tonight's meeting, and that these elevations are accepted as the completed design review, and #19: Staff shall work with the applicant in figuring the width of pedestrian path sidewalks that leave the project property — a total of nineteen (19) proposed conditions of approval. Mary Ann Mounts seconded the motion. Thaine Robinson amended his motion to include that proposed condition #1 shall have the added words: "Applicant shall work with City sta ff on a plan... ". Mary Ann Mounts seconded the amended motion. None opposed. Motion carried. Kartchner Student Housing Proposed Conditions of Approval 1. Applicant shall work with City staff on a plan so that a throuh traffic access is not created through the parking lot that connects 7 South and 6 South. 2. Provide an Engineered Traffic Study. 3. Provide a Development Agreement that will include but not be limited to the widening of 7 South, the construction of 6 South and 4 West, the construction of the bridge over 4 West and all infrastructure adjacent and extending through the area of the project. This Development Agreement must be approved by the City Engineer and the Community Development Director. 4. Council approval is required for the use of 4 West right -of -way. 5. Provide buffering on the east and north sides of the northernmost parking lot. 6. Trash dumpsters /receptacles shall be located within the interior (behind front building line, but minimum is required setbacks) of the lot and shall be enclosed. 7. A site plan reflecting all conditions of approval and incorporating all City standards, e.g. landscaping, parking, snow storage, etc. shall be submitted and approved by the City prior to the issuance of a building permit. 8. Lighting shall be low (under 15 -feet in height) and not create glare, and as a minimum shall adhere to the City's lighting ordinance. 9. To encourage alternative travel options, i.e. bicycling, bike racks and hard surface must be provided. Location of racks need to be shown on revised site plan. This requirement is identified in the PEZ Ordinance. 10. Sidewalk and pathway maintenance to be performed as per the PEZ Ordinance. 11. Parking Contracts to be approved by the City Attorney. 12. Requirements of the PEZ Zone Ordinance to be applied to this project. 13. Buildings to meet design standards. 14. Storm drainage, snow removal area and other Engineering considerations to be reviewed and approved by the City Engineer. 15. Visitor parking stalls shall be marked. 16. A storm drainage ditch plan shall be approved by City staff. 17. A snow removal plan shall be approved by City staff. 18. The building elevations shall be substantially in conformance with those plans presented at tonight's meeting, and that these elevations are accepted as the completed design review. 19. Staff shall work with the applicant in figuring the width of pedestrian path sidewalks that leave the project property. New Business: 1. Preliminary Plat — Lille Landsby Subdivision G7 Kurt Roland, Schiess & Associates, 859 South Yellowstone, representing Neal Smith They have spoken with staff on the proposal. The site plan was shown on the overhead screen. They plan on putting in four lots at the project property located on North 5`'' West, and they will build residential homes and a 24 -foot private drive going through the property that they will maintain. A hammerhead turnaround will be provided to accommodate fire department vehicles. They will do their own snow removal. The zoning is Low Density Residential Two (LDR2). An aerial map of the property was projected on the screen. Chairman Dyer asked the size of the homes. Developer Neal Smith (in the audience) said they would be small starter homes. The driveway is against the south property line. Kurt Roland said there is enough room for the required setbacks. The 10, 000 square foot lot size includes the driveway. The minimum lot size requirement in LDR2 is 8,000 square feet. Neal Smith in answer to Chairman Dyer, stated that Lot 4 faces 5`" West. Kurt Roland said the layout is tight but these will be small houses. Mr. Smith said the square footage of the homes including garages is 1200 square feet. The utilities will be privately maintained, rather than being maintained by the City. There will be an agreement between homeowners should the utilities require repairs. Chairman Dyer asked Val Christensen for staff input. Val Christensen said his review comment states that this preliminary plat complies with the Development Code 926 ordinance. The private drive does not take up any more space than would a driveway. There are still the required setbacks that needed to be met. They still have to get their green space. There is room for these homes, along with the needed yard requirements. The lots are big enough that with a conditional use permit, duplexes could be put on them. Neal Smith said duplexes are not planned, only single family homes. The Commissioners discussed the proposal. Mary Ann Mounts motioned to recommend approval to City Council of the Preliminary Plat for the Lille Landsby Subdivision on North 5` West. Nephi Allen seconded the motion. None opposed. Motion carried. Kurt Roland complimented the City on the beautiful new Council chambers. Unfinished /Old Business: 10 1. Mixed Use Zones - Discussion Val Christensen stated that at the last P &Z meeting, the Mixed -Use 1 (MU -1) zone was discussed. It may be less dense and more of a buffer for single family residential than Mixed -Use 2 (MU -2), which will probably be located near Brigham Young University -Idaho and near commercial. The PEZ Zone was discussed as an overlay for MU -2, and potentially to let the geometry of the buildings themselves dictate the density. It was seen as necessary to get with the University, as one concern brought up in the discussion was the areas south of 2 " South and up to 1" South being better at high density, and potentially mixed use. There is potential for the area to be MU- 2. They also discussed College Avenue and the potential problem of coming in medium density, but if trying to go to high density, the Comprehensive Plan Map (Preferred Land Use Map) is designated as Mixed Use. There was discussion of changing the map to high density. There also was the possibility that the University would not want a commercial use within one of their single student projects. Yesterday the City met with representatives from the University (Sharon Tuckett, Philip Packer, and Charles Andersen). It was felt that mixed - use may not be workable if a compromise is not found. In the spirit of compromise, the representatives will communicate with officials at the University and will come back to the City with information. Mr. Christensen would like to wait on proceeding with the Mixed -Use Zones until hearing back from the University. Mr. Christensen said that Rachel Whoolery. who last year was granted a conditional use permit for dormitory style housing at 165 South 1s` East, brought a question to him today about this very issue. She owns four homes; the area was shown on the overhead screen. She is present tonight to tell of her dilemma. The current zoning here is Medium Density Residential 1. In order for her to redevelop, she would want to up- zone, but the only zone change she could ask for is Low Density Residential, as the Comprehensive Plan Map shows Low Density Residential. If the homes were torn down, a complex could not be built. Medium Density should have extended another half block on the Comprehensive Plan Map. Rachel Whoolery addressed the Commissioners regarding the status of her property and its Conditional Use Permit.. She requested and was granted a year to explore redevelopment possibilities, so she is reporting back. The Medium Density Residential 1 zone allows16 units per acre. She has eight units on half an acre, so she is at full density. The City's plan in that area was to see the homes possibly torn down, combined and replaced by complexes. The overlay is incongruent with the underlying zone. Other property owners might also be affected Chairman Dyer thought it would facilitate matters if the property owners were to get together to express support for a change; they could come in for a Comprehensive Plan Map change and then a Zone change. There was discussion. If the City initiated the change, there would not be a cost to the property owners. Stephen Zollinger said they created a PEZ Zone that is incongruent with the underlying zone. They have got to bring the two back together, or they need to write the PEZ Zone in such a way that it overrides the underlying densities as long as certain conditions are met. Stephen Zollinger and Val Christensen stated that the City would initiate the changes to the Comprehensive Plan Map at the next opportunity. 11 /c /l /CIS "'W'u "-LzC -'6�� Discussion continued. Rachel Whoolery will investigate (through a letter) if surrounding property owners would support a Comprehensive Plan Map change in favor of high density and /or mixed use. Rachel Whoolerv's Conditional Use Permit is requiring a parking lot to be put in or that she act on the PEZ Zone opportunity by June 2010. The Commission decided that the Rachel Whoolery Conditional Use Permit ( #0X00522) may be in a hold status until changes occur regarding the Comprehensive Plan Map. Compliance None Non controversial Items Added to the Agenda: None Report on Projects None Tabled Requests: None Building Permit Application Report: None Heads U12 Chairman Dyer reported briefly on the Design Review Committee meeting today for Great Harvest Bread Co., which is relocating to 19 East Main, the former City Annex building. The Commission came to the decision to cancel the October 15` P &Z meeting. The next P &Z meeting will be November 5` The meeting was adjourned at 9:50 pm. 12 • 0 A' Yf ' 2 1 2-00 Gary Leikness recommended the motion include addressing of all staff department comments. He also stated that though a copy of the CC&Rs should have been submitted at this time, a copy of the project's CC &Rs would need to be submitted for review by the City Attorney prior to final plat approval. They do meet the parking requirements for condominiums, which requires additional spaces. They rearranged things to make open space more oriented toward the street The applicant has incorporated a lot of positive things in the site plan. Chairman Dyer said this proposal has openness and good presentation to the street. Richie Webb recused himself due to conflict of interest. Dan Hanna motioned to recommend approval to City Council of the Pioneer Pointe Condominiums Preliminary Plat on West 72h South, to include that all staff review comments are addressed, to have the CC &Rs reviewed and acknowledged by the City Attorney, and that the developer incorporate in the site plan the staggering of the buildings of at least 3- foot jogs, and that landscaping and snow removal be further reviewed by City staff. Josh Garner seconded the motion. Dan Hanna amended his motion to add that the developer shall have a development agreement with the City that will include addressing of sharing of utility costs with MaryAnn Beck, the adjacent property owner. [Staff Note: The utility subject is in response to a letter submitted by MaryAnn Beck's attorney] Josh Garner seconded the amended motion. None opposed. Motion carried. Compliance: None Non controversial Items Added to the Agenda: 1. Rachel Whoolery — request regarding Conditional Use Permit #08 00522 Rachel Whoolerv 2169 Ferris Lane, representing Saqqara properties, which owns the dormitory housing at 165 S. 1 52 E. (Conditional Use Permit #08 00522). They have spent the last several months since she was before the Commission regarding this Conditional Use Permit, conforming to all the requirements needed for dormitory housing, including legal easements for parking, remodeling the building inside and out, and electrical updating. They have demolished outbuildings, sheds, and an extra garage to prepare for the parking lot. They have removed trees and added parking. They have improved the property in many ways. She gave the Commissioners a handout that showed all four of the Saqqara(Whoolery) properties, and an aerial photo of the properties was shown on the overhead screen Mrs. Whoolery has put in parking near Amanda's Cottage (now called Aberdeen) and has added enough parking for all the residents. Since winter has now ended, they are ready to continue on with their parking plan. However, Mrs. Whoolery has been attending the past P &Z meetings where the PEZ (Pedestrian Emphasis Zone) parking zone was discussed. She really admires the creativity and progressive thinking that is going into trying to densify the perimeter around BYU -I. The properties fit within that zone. She is also interested in putting the four properties Saqqara owns to better use. If Mrs. Whoolery puts in a $67,000 parking lot by the June 1, 2009, deadline date for the conditional use permit requirements, she will be solidifying that 11 ! # they are keeping the 4 houses, and will have spent so much into them, that they will not have the flexibility to move on at any time soon. She said the City will probably have their parking reduction ordinance in place in the next few months. Therefore Rachel Whoolery is proposing that if the Commission will grant her 1 more year on her conditional use permit requirements deadline, she will look into the cost of actually putting a complex in, instead of the 4 homes. They also want to explore possible underground parking and building living space above it. Let her explore the chance of doing what the PEZ zone addresses; they are looking at tearing everything down and rebuilding. Chairman Dyer said that is exactly the purpose of the PEZ requirements. It is good for the applicant /developer and for the City and for the University. The Commissioners discussed Rachel Whoolery's request. This is what they would like to see. Gary Leikness suggested extending the conditional use permit deadline date for installation of the required parking lot for one year to June 12010, in light of the PEZ zone potentially being adopted, and keeping the sunset clause, so that if another extension is needed, the applicant would have to come before them again. Chairman Dyer thanked Rachel Whoolery for her creative thinking and being sensitive to the community. Josh Garner motioned to extend the Rachel Whoolery (Saggara Properties) Conditional Use Permit #08 00522, to a deadline of June 1, 2010, with the condition that the applicant will either complete the parking lot, or the applicant will make application to take advantage of the PEZ zone opportunity, by that date. Dan Hanna seconded the motion. None opposed (unanimous for the record, per Chairman Dyer). Motion carried. 2. Development Code 926 — additional input? The Commission discussed and clarified further changes to the Development Code 926 revisions. Dan Hanna motioned that the Development Code 926 Clean -up move forward for adoption by City Council, for the April 15, 2009 Public Hearing, to include the modifications discussed at tonight's meeting. Josh Garner seconded the motion. None opposed. Motion carried. 3. Mixed Use Zones discussion — to be addressed at the April 16' P &Z meeting 4. Sign Ordinance — Temporary Signs and Banners — to be addressed at the April 16`'' P &Z meeting 12 f Findings of Fact City of Rexburg 12 North Center Phone: 208.359.3020 Rexburg, ID 83440 www.rexburg.org Fax: 208.359.3022 ` � o � gEXBUQ Us� O CITY OF REX America's Family Community Rachel Whoolery —165 S. 1" E. Conditional Use Permit 1. On October 27, 2008 Rachel Whoolery, owner and applicant, presented to the Rexburg Planning & Zoning Coordinator a Request and Application for a Conditional Use Permit for Dormitory style housing at 165 South 1S East. 2. On October 27, 2008, the City Clerk sent the Notice of Public Hearing to be published in the local newspaper for November 1, 2008, and November 15, 2008. A notice was posted on the property and sent to all property owners within 300 feet of the above mentioned property. 3. On November 20,2008, Rachel Whoolery, presented to the Planning & Zoning Commission for the City of Rexburg the Request for a Conditional Use Permit Dormitory style housing at 165 South V East. Charles Andersen motioned to recommend approval to City Council to grant a Conditional Use Permit for 165 South 1 East to change a single family dwelling to dormitory housing, to include all staff proposed conditions excluding #9 and #3, and to require a Restrictive Lot Line Covenant tying the 4 properties together, and to include that this conditional use permit limit the dormitory residents to 12 students. Josh Garner seconded the motion. None opposed. Motion carried. Proposed Conditions of Approval 1. No issuance of a Conditional Use Permit can occur until all site plan issues are resolved and approved through administrative review which shall take place at the time the applicant applies for a change of use with the Community Development Department. 2. All parking lot requirements shall be depicted on the revised site plan, including proper aisle widths, grades, parking stall sizes, number of spaces, etc. 3. STRIKE #3 - -- c'cr rr rc c , ...;;y , 0( a1 01 aft ("I" ei'll t a`si'o l oen l l. s 4. Should City policies and /or ordinances change regarding parking standards, these standards will apply to the subject property. 5. Trash dumpsters /receptacles shall be located within the interior (behind front building line, but minimum is required setbacks) of the lot and shall be enclosed with materials that are consistent with those materials used in the building that they are adjacent to, e.g. brick, wood, etc. 6. Lighting shall be reviewed. All lighting shall be applicable lighting standards, including full cut -off fixtures and lower wattage light sources, i.e. 60 -75 watt. r � Violating lights on site shall be replaced prior to issuance of a certificate of occupancy. 7. A site plan reflecting all conditions of approval and incorporating all City standards, e.g. landscaping, parking, etc. shall be submitted and approved by the City prior to the issuance of a building permit. 8. A landscape plan shall be submitted when an application is submitted for a change of use, or building permit. Landscaping shall be required to be implemented prior to the issuance of a full certificate of occupancy. The site shall include 30% landscaping (per ordinance 926), this percentage shall be shown on the approvable landscape plan. STRIKE #9 .-. , r .J, 10. Proposed project entrances shall be enhanced through landscaping. This requirement shall include all mechanical equipment installed as part of the development to be adequately screened from the ROW and from adjacent property. 11. Lighting shall be low (under 15 -feet in height) and not create glare, and as a minimum shall adhere to the City's lighting ordinance. Any proposed lighting would need to be submitted to the City for review and approval subject to the submittal and approval criteria found in the development code. 12. All exterior sidewalks adjacent to the site (including any property encumbered by the proposal, as these properties will then become part of the proposed parking solution.) must be installed or repaired (to City standards) prior to the occupancy of the proposed structure 13. All sidewalks both exterior and interior should be interconnected and should connect to the main entrances of the unit 14. To encourage alternative travel options, which are likely to decrease vehicular trip generation, bicycle parking shall be provided, both long term (several hour stay, weather protected) and short term (visitors- two hours or less). As a minimum, for dormitory housing, long -term parking spaces (sheltered) shall be provided at a ratio of 1 space per 3 tenants and short-term parking at a ratio of 1 space per 2 tenants. For this development this would require 4 long -term spaces and 6 short-term spaces. 15. Sheltered parking, like the screening of trash dumpsters shall be constructed of high quality building materials that are consistent with the main building. Sheltered parking shall not be located within the required front yard. A hard surface path shall be provided from the City right -of -way to sheltered parking and then to the main entrance of main structure. 4. City Council, December 3, 2008 - Rachel Whoolery asked for dormitory housing at 165 South 1" East. The proposal meets the zoning requirements in MDR1. She wanted to maintain green space for the occupants. Gardening sheds would be taken out to maintain some green space and required parking. She currently has 11 parking spaces on the property. She explained how some of the property could be sold and continue to maintain the required parking. 2 0 9 Discussion: To require adequate parking with deed restrictions and remove the condition of property encumbrance. Mayor Larsen suggested adding a 16` condition which was displayed on the overhead screen. Council Member Schwendiman moved to approve (CUP) Conditional Use Permit for dormitory housing at 165 South 1" East including the addition of an additional (16 b condition) - "Applicant shall provide all required parking spaces on the subject property, or secure required number of spaces through a parking agreement with adjacent property within a distance allowed by ordinance, if that property has excess parking beyond requirement. This can be accomplished through a Restrictive Lot Line Covenant (RLLC), or a perpetual parking easement." Plus remove the property encumbrance condition; Council Member Stout seconded the motion; roll call vote: Those voting aye Council Member Mann Those voting nab Council Member Erickson Council Member Schwendiman Council Member Stevens Council Member Stout The motion carried. ki i 1 NOTICE OF PUBLIC HEARING NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, that a Public Hearing will be held before the Planning & Zoning Commission of the City of Rexburg, Idaho, Thursday, November 20, 2008, at 7:05 p.m., in the City Council Chambers of the City Building at 12 North Center, Rexburg, Idaho, regarding a Conditional Use Permit for `Dormitory Style" housing at 165 South 1St East. The current MDR1 Zone allows sixteen dwelling units per acre by right and Dormitory Style housing with a "Conditional Use Permit." The said parcel is located at 165 South 1St East in Rexburg, Madison County, Idaho, and more particularly described as follows: Commencing at a point 82.5 feet north of the Southwest corner of Lot 2, in Block 1, of the Parker Addition to the City of Rexburg, Madison County, Idaho as per the recorded plat thereof; and running thence north 54 feet; thence east 156.75 feet; thence south 54 feet; west 156.75 feet to the point of beginning. At such hearing the Planning & Zoning Commission will hear all persons and all objections and recommendations relative to such proposed permit. The City Clerk will also accept written comments at City Hall prior to 4:00 p.m. on November 19, 2008. This notice is given pursuant to the provisions of Section 67 -6509 and 67 -6511 Idaho Code, and all amendments thereof. DATED this 27th day of October, 2008. P ORq I SEAL..: /, / / /// ....I. 7/0 /811111111 \\\\\\\- November 1 st, 2008 November 15th, 2008 CITY OF REXBURG ED Blair D. Kay, City Clerk -- i 6 f - _ - 1 I . -1 a f[0U1 @� hL r r.: w v� AL � 14 (lid 7, P hL r r.: w v� Second South 175' ti O -� o r C� U U- 0 Fire Hydrant fhoolery Property Scale � ... . ...... North ,ember 17, 2008